Ashamed to Admit
Episode #8 Do Australian Jews run the country's media and politics? And, Australia's first schmear
Are Australia’s Jews rich and powerful; pulling the strings of the media and the government to favour their interests? In this episode, Dash and Tami continue to unpack the racist conspiracy that's been resuscitated online post-October 7. Plus, gateway schmears and a new way to identify as a contemporary Jew.
Articles adjacent to the ideas explored in this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/the-tortuous-task-of-sorting-fact-from-fiction-in-gaza
Email your feedback, questions, show ideas etc: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
(You can also email voice memos here).
Subscribe to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
Tami and Dash on Instagram: tami_sussman_writer_celebrant and dashiel_and_pascoe
X: TJI_au
YouTube: thejewishindependentAU
Facebook: TheJewishIndependentAU
Instagram: thejewishindependent
Are Australia’s Jews rich and powerful; pulling the strings of the media and the government to favour their interests? In this episode, Dash and Tami continue to unpack the racist conspiracy that's been resuscitated online post-October 7. Plus, gateway schmears and a new way to identify as a contemporary Jew.
Articles adjacent to the ideas explored in this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/the-tortuous-task-of-sorting-fact-from-fiction-in-gaza
Email your feedback, questions, show ideas etc: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
(You can also email voice memos here).
Subscribe to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
Tami and Dash on Instagram: tami_sussman_writer_celebrant and dashiel_and_pascoe
X: TJI_au
YouTube: thejewishindependentAU
Facebook: TheJewishIndependentAU
Instagram: thejewishindependent
I've got a bowl of Cobb's popcorn slightly salted with dark chocolate on top. Ooh, cobb's are a Melbourne-based business, family-owned business.
Speaker 2:Potential sponsors Dash, I'm so proud of you. It's only taken eight episodes, but you've finally taken the initiative. I was wondering why you brought a bowl of popcorn to a podcast recording like that. It's not a subtle snack. Are you ashamed to admit that you're not across all of the issues affecting Jews in Australia, the Middle East and the world at large? I'm Tammy Sussman and in this podcast series I ask the Jewish Independence Executive Director, dashiell Lawrence, all the ignorant questions that I and I reckon you are too embarrassed to ask.
Speaker 1:I'm Dash Lawrence and I'm going to attempt to answer most of Tammy's questions in the time that it might take you to complete Vietnam's online visa application for you, your partner.
Speaker 2:What about in the time it takes you to find a username that hasn't already been taken on OnlyFans? But together, Dash and I are going to try and cut through the week's chewiest and jewiest topics.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast. Ashamed to Admit. Thank you again for joining us. This is Episode 8 of Season 1 of Ash. Shame to Admit, I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent.
Speaker 2:And I'm author, podcaster, marriage celebrant and Dash's newest best friend, tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1:Ah, bestie.
Speaker 2:I've made a list of things that besties do together, so besties speak regularly.
Speaker 1:We exchange messages. Does that count?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we kind of have to for the show. Besties go for coffee. We've had one coffee. Okay, besties offer to pick each other up from airports when they travel interstate.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. I see where this is going. You've got a trip coming up to Melbourne at some stage in the next few months and you want me to drive out to Tullamarine to pick you up.
Speaker 2:Maybe Besties help each other with hair removal, which you've done after our third episode.
Speaker 1:You know what? I have never had a best friend that I've removed hair from. That broke new ground for me.
Speaker 2:Top tier, and so I think what would really help this best friendship to flourish because this is what besties do? They go on like surf trips or ski trips. I don't surf, and we should know this. I've never seen snow.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2:Never seen snow.
Speaker 1:Are you ashamed to admit that?
Speaker 2:I'm quite proud of it at this point. Yeah, so I was thinking that what we could do you, me, Marina we could go on a dust trip to Broken Hill and we could, you know, kick around some dust, do a bit of research. Marina could facilitate a seance you could go for runs in in, like our free time. You could bring whatever length of shorts you'd like, because the people of broken hill they're really welcoming people and they don't judge as demonstrated in the film Priscilla, queen of the Desert, the bus stops off in Broken Hill.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So, coincidentally, I can see that there's a sale on at the moment for flights, okay. And I've looked into accommodation, I've looked into resorts and I can see because I see myself like having a cocktail by the pool while you and Marina did most of the research at the library Broken Hill Outback Resort. I looked it up oh, it's a caravan park. Okay, well, scrap that idea. And Marina, she has squeezed some more sweet and sour fermented juice out of the pickle. That is my family history. So she's found something in the archives. I'm going to send it to you now for you to read. It's a newspaper article from Saturday, the 29th of Jan 1910.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, Headline selling after hours. Leo Lukowski was charged with having kept his shop in Patton Street open after hours on January the 17th. He pleaded guilty. Constable Pearden said Lukowski had sold a pound of butter to a woman after closing time. He was fined one pound and five shillings costs in default 10 days. He was given 14 days time, I presume, to pay the fine. Good grief, I know.
Speaker 2:Leo, what were you doing? This is my interpretation. Before he got into pickles, he had a shop that sold nothing else other than butter, Because, as we know, butter is the original schmear and it's the gateway spread, and from there you get to cream cheese and from there you get to trout mousse. So he was like, would they call it an early adopter of a spread? That's what I've gained from this tidbit. The reason why I'm kind of procrastinating here in Broken Hill Land is because I'm a little bit nervous to get back into the world of racist conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. I think we do. Just out of curiosity, I noticed that you use the word racist rather than anti-Semitic. Why is that? Is that intentional?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm glad you picked that up. I was listening to a podcast with David Baddiel, who is the author, commentator, comedian, media personality who wrote Jews Don't Count, and he put forward this argument, which I'm not going to reiterate because I'll butcher it, but basically he was saying we should call it what it is it's anti-Jewish racism. Anti-semitism is, like, I guess, too vague. So, you know, let's just call it what it is, it's anti-Jewish racism. And I was like that's interesting, I'm going to practice saying that.
Speaker 1:So it's time to bust another myth this week, Tammy, and that is a myth that has been resuscitated in Australia since October 7. Last week Episode 7, we talked about the conspiracy that all Australian Jewish people are rich and that they use that wealth to buy influence and power. Today we're taking a look at the ways that Australian Jews are seen to exert that influence to shape public policy, to control the media, to influence civil society. I'd like us to go back last year, before October 7, when Australia was in the throes of the voice referendum campaign. Do you remember that time? I do, and backed the yes vote, either joining the yes campaign or just throwing their verbal support behind the idea of an Indigenous voice to parliament. So probably the most high profile, or probably the most active in this area, was Chairman of AJAC, Mark Leibler. We'll talk a little bit about him in the course of this conversation. So he was the most high profile, but you had federal liberal MP Julian Lisa, who's a member from North Sydney, the Attorney General, Mark Dreyfus.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is he?
Speaker 2:Jewish.
Speaker 1:Mark Dreyfus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. I thought so because Dreyfus and Julia Louis Dreyfus, but I wasn't sure because Dreyfus and Julia Louis Dreyfus, but I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mark Dreyfus is his.
Speaker 1:There were a number of Jewish organisations, including the peak Jewish communal body here in Victoria, that threw their weight behind or that made public statements in support of a yes vote, and there were also some grassroots community initiatives to get Australian Jews voting for yes, and that included Stand Up, and even my own organisation, the Jewish Independent, had its own initiative to build support for the yes vote.
Speaker 1:So, instead of seeing these contributions to the campaign as really just one part of a mosaic of ethnic and faith and social communities that were taking an active role in the referendum campaign and, in this instance, supporting the voice, there were some people out there, mostly on social media, who saw this as a part of a Jewish conspiracy. There was one particular graphical meme that made its way around social media platforms. One particularly nasty and vile graphic which had some of the names I mentioned before, in addition to businessman Anthony Pratt and academic Kim Rubenstein. Justice Stephen Rothman and Federal MP Josh Burns was included in this as well, with the Star of David stamped on each of these individuals' faces and the statement. All of the major creators, financiers and supporters of the voice to parliament are Jewish. Ask yourself why 0.38% of Australia's population is using 3% as a battering ram against the rest of the country every single time.
Speaker 2:I remember the name Leibler coming up a lot back then. Did Mark Leibler bear a lot of the brunt of this conspiracy theory?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did so. Mark Leibler bear a lot of the brunt of this conspiracy theory. Yeah, he did so. Mark Leibler, as I mentioned before, is Ajax National Chairman and he was for many years Chairman of the Zionist Federation of Australia. He's probably the most high profile or the most longstanding public advocate for Israel in this country. But in addition to that and his work as a taxation solicitor and the owner of Arnold Bloch Leibler for many years Leibler really threw his energy behind reconciliation as an important social justice area and he was for many years the co-chair of the expert panel that was looking at constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians.
Speaker 1:And that referendum council culminated in the eventual drafting and public release of the Uluru Statement of the Heart, and it was the Uluru Statement of the Heart that called for the voice to parliament. It was the Uluru Statement of the Heart that called for the voice to parliament. I should also mention that he's a close friend and mentor of the leading voice campaigner, noel Pearson, as well. As we know, there's no single view among Indigenous communities about whether a voice to parliament is necessary, whether it's a good thing. I think that Labour copped a bit of the blowback, even among Indigenous communities, like some people within the Black Sovereignty Movement, which is a movement that opposed the voice to parliament model, just to illustrate what this looks like, what this sounds like and how this would be received by the Jewish community.
Speaker 2:we have some examples of the tweets that were being published around that time. So one of them reads of course, jews support it. They're referring to the Voice. This was their idea in the first place. That Jew you're shaking hands with, mark Leibler, was the main architect of the Voice. Jewish power in Australia is more secure if white Australia is weakened and you are complicit in it. Treasonous.
Speaker 1:Another quote reads well, considering the Yes23 campaign is being headed up by a Zionist and tax avoidance expert, mark Leibler, deception is naturally how they swindle Australians into voting for this thing. You cannot make this stuff up. Awful, yeah. Like there's just dozens more of that kind of invective, most of it directed at Liebler and we'll come back to him later in this conversation because in the post-October 7 climate, liebler's role as a public advocate for Israel was again the source of a lot of anti-Semitic attacks on social media.
Speaker 1:Now, tammy, it used to be that this type of conspiratorial thinking would be isolated pretty well to Australia's racist far right. But in the lead into the voice campaign there were some from the far left fringes of Australian politics, including some people that were opposed to the voice to parliament option because they felt that sovereignty was the most important thing. There were some who regarded Labor's involvement in the voice campaign with suspicion and in some of their social media postings labelled it as another form of a Zionist or Jewish control. Now, as we know, the yes campaign was defeated on October the 14th. Australians overwhelmingly voted no. There was no doubt about what people made of the proposition. Fast forward a few months after that, after Israel had been attacked by Hamas on October the 7th, the biggest massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and Jenny Leong, who is a Greens member for Newtown in the New South Wales Parliament, had this to say at a Palestinian solidarity meeting in Sydney the Jewish lobby and the Zionist lobby are infiltrating into every single aspect of what is ethnic community groups.
Speaker 4:They rock up and they're part of the campaign. They offer support for things like the campaign against the 18C racial duplication laws. They offer solidarity. They rock up to every community event and meeting to offer that connection, because their tentacles reach in to the areas that try and influence power and I think that we need to call that out and expose it.
Speaker 1:So, Tammy, this is not just a Instagram influencer or a student activist speaking on campus. This is a member of the New South Wales State Parliament, not only explaining how Jewish people infiltrate civil society and influence power, but invoking a 1938 Nazi Germany cartoon that depicts Jews as an octopus encircling the globe with their tentacles.
Speaker 2:That was really disturbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was Now when the comments were made public.
Speaker 1:Leong did apologise for the comments and in her apology she acknowledged that, as a committed human rights and anti-racism advocate who has been outspoken about the rising threat of far-right extremism, it was important to hold people to account for words that may cause harm An incredibly self-important statement if ever I've heard one, and as far as I'm aware, she wasn't really held to account for those words.
Speaker 1:Nevertheless that in that particular incident, the penny dropped for me about just how much the anti-Semitic tropes of Jewish power and influence had shifted from the gutter of social media of Red and Gab and X. The fact that a member of parliament was now voicing anti these or alluding to and invoking these types of canards. It was shocking. So last week, tammy, when we were looking at this question of Jewish people and money and we were critiquing that accusation that all Jewish people in Australia have money, we looked at the census data and the Gen 17 survey responses and some of the other evidence out there to establish that the picture is much more complicated. I thought this week we could break down some of those accusations around the ways that Jewish people influence the media or public policy or civil society. So should we begin with media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's do that. I wanted to know from you and from ChatGPT what media company ownership was like in Australia, so what media companies are owned or run by Jews versus non-Jews? Chatgpt said that in Australia, media ownership is highly concentrated among a few major corporations.
Speaker 1:So ChatGPT is exactly right. We do not have much diversity when it comes to the media landscape in this country. The channels and platforms are owned by a small group of individuals and families.
Speaker 2:But I know that one of them is News Corp Australia, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and it dominates the Australian print media landscape with major publications like the Daily Telegraph, the Herald Sun, the Australian. But can you confirm, have you seen Rupert Murdoch's Schmeckle? Is he Jewish or not?
Speaker 1:I haven't seen his Schmeckle. He is most definitely not Jewish. I think the anti-Semites out there would love it if he was, because then that could just feed into their twisted narrative. Yeah, but nevertheless, even though he's not Jewish and even though he's not a resident of the state of Israel, that doesn't stop some people from coming up with all kinds of crazy theories and ideas. But you know, rupert Murdoch fundamentally is, I would have thought, not someone who's motivated by A.
Speaker 2:Jewish agenda.
Speaker 1:By a Jewish agenda? No, or a Zionist agenda. You know whatever has motivated him and his family agenda. You know whatever has motivated him and his family. Of course, now that empire has been in some ways bequeathed to his son, lachlan, who, surprise, surprise, is also not Jewish and he's not equally, is not someone you would describe as being motivated by or driven by some Jewish or Zionist agenda.
Speaker 2:Was he married to Mariah Carey?
Speaker 1:No, that was-. Oh, that was a packer. That was a brief engagement I believe that James Packer had. I'm not sure they ever got married.
Speaker 2:Okay, and the Packers? I'm ashamed to admit, at one point I thought the Packers and the Murdochs were the same family.
Speaker 1:They're not.
Speaker 4:Oh that is Because Mariah.
Speaker 2:Carey has nothing to do with Mariah College, which is a Jewish thing. I thought maybe some people kind of got those two things confused. Okay, so we can confirm that they're not. We've also got Seven West Media, who operates the Seven Network various print publications. That's owned by Carey Stokes.
Speaker 1:Correct, also not Jewish Not.
Speaker 2:Jewish no.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Correct. Also, not Jewish, not Jewish, no, okay, sorry. Then there's Nine Entertainment, which is a Sydney Morning Herald, the Age, the Australian Financial Review. Is that the one that publishes the gross rich list?
Speaker 1:Now a privately listed company.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't have a standalone CEO.
Speaker 1:Well, it has a CEO, but there's no, there's no owner, there's no single owner and there's certainly no Jewish owner.
Speaker 2:Got it Because I read something about Mike Sneasby, the CEO of Nine Entertainment, which includes the former Fairfax Media Assets. I don't know what all those things mean.
Speaker 1:You're just basically on the hunt for Jewish names, weren't you? I was, you were like let me find these names. So I can actually see that there's some kernel, perhaps, of truth to these crazy ideas.
Speaker 2:And the only person I could find, which was, you know, part of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, the ABC and SBS. They're public broadcasters, they offer a range of news and current affairs, multicultural content, and they are, I guess, proud of the fact that they maintain editorial independence from commercial pressures. I think SBS does have ads now anyway, but is Ida Buttrose still the chairperson of ABC?
Speaker 1:No, she's been quite a high-prof profile chair of the ABC in recent times.
Speaker 2:Your theory stands true that everyone has at least one Jewish grandparent, because she does have some Jewish ancestry on her maternal side. But, conspiracy theorists, she was raised as a Catholic by her parents. When I did all this research, chachibt didn't even mention Schwartz Media, who do the Saturday paper, the monthly quarterly essay, australian Foreign Affairs. I'm ashamed to admit that prior to October 7th I hadn't even heard of any of those publications, but that is owned by Maury Schwartz, who is Jewish.
Speaker 1:Yep, so Maury Schwartz is-.
Speaker 2:Big Jew bagel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he is one of the country's only Jewish media barons. If you like, he is a property developer turned media owner. Those outlets and publications that are part of the Schwartz Media Group is, unlike some of those other media outlets, has been created essentially to ensure that Australia has good media diversity and that we have more quality journalism, not less. So kudos to Morrie, whose publications, most of which I will read, and beyond what I just described, I'm not sure what his other motivations have been for investing in and continuing to support in very significant ways, I would imagine those publications.
Speaker 1:But all of that has not prevented people from throwing again all kinds of conspiracy theories and various other accusations at him. For the last few years, he has been the subject of an online campaign, a boycott campaign that has encouraged people to stop subscribing to the Saturday paper, to stop listening to the very successful 7am podcast, to stop buying or publishing with Black Ink Books, his publishing house, all because of an accusation that he is a Zionist, that he is a supporter of Israel, that he is someone that only wants to present a particular narrative about Israel in his publications. So it's no surprise, in some ways, that the one Jewish media owner among all the large media outlets, the one owner cops. This level of nasty, vile invective directed his way.
Speaker 2:I probably should have also mentioned Mama Mia, which is owned by Mia Friedman and her Jewish husband. But I think if you've listened to any of their podcasts or read their content, it's pretty clear that they're not pushing a Jewish or Zionist agenda, but they are pushing a Taylor Swift agenda and I really enjoyed their podcast called Her, which was big on lesbian content. They could be accused of creating really pervy foreplay content. I've lost my train of thought now.
Speaker 1:Where are you going with that one?
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's my. Jewish content consumption recommendation for the week. We need to move on. So two weeks ago a photo emerged on the socials. It was a picture of Anthony Albanese meeting with the Rabbinical Council and Allegra Spender, who is Dash member for Wentworth, as you know, in Sydney, a municipal area where a lot of Jews live.
Speaker 1:Significant proportion of Sydney's Jewish population live in the seat of Wentworth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there were a few problematic things in that picture, including the fact that there was no nosh, there were no snacks on the conference table, which is pretty anti-Semitic. Of course, there were no female rabbis included on that panel. However, I'm told that the meeting was organized in haste and there were good intentions behind that, and that's a whole conversation for another episode. But I think what the non-Jewish conspiracy theorists may have taken from that photo is that the Jews have this access to our prime minister or government and that Jewish people somehow, I don't know, have a lot of sway or cachet. And I was curious to know are there other ethnic or religious groups who have access, who might have opportunities to meet with the Prime Minister?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely there are organisations that represent the interests of faith groups and represent other ethno-national identities. You might be familiar, Tammy, with the Australian Christian Lobby, which says that it's a grassroots movement of over a quarter of a million people bringing a Christian influence into Australian politics.
Speaker 2:Do they say they do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's part of their Mission Mission. Yeah, well, it's certainly out there on their website. But they're not shying away from the fact that they look to lobby government on a whole range of areas of not just things related to the protection of Christian and Christian rights, but also seeking to really influence a whole number of areas of social policy, all under, probably, what they regard to be a more Christian, traditional way of life in Australia. So they're probably the most high profile among the kind of religious groups that advocate to government and, you know, even for the Muslim community. Now there's the Alliance of Australian Muslims, which, by their own identification again in their own words, they seek to influence key decision makers in government, media and civil society on matters of most concern to Muslims in Australia, in order to protect and advance the welfare of Australia's Muslim community.
Speaker 1:So the Jewish community is not alone in having groups of people that either seek to meet with the Prime Minister or other parliamentarians or are consulted by the government on particular issues. Who knows who instigated that meeting with the PM a couple of weeks ago. But certainly people shouldn't look at that and think, wow, jewish people get really special privileges, don't they, having a meeting with the PM. The reality is that there are many different lobby groups representing religious communities, ethnic communities and other diasporic communities in this country and there's. They're all looking to shape and influence public policy.
Speaker 1:The Australian-Palestinian advocacy network, apan, has met as of earlier this year. I think they had a meeting with Foreign Minister Penny Wong, and no doubt they've probably had other meetings with other federal parliamentarians. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing to be suspicious about. If groups and people want to make representations to the government and put their case forward, I say good luck to them. It just so happens that the Jewish community has been particularly effective at this. Now, I don't know what the rabbis were talking about when they met with the prime minister. I suspect it was probably more issues related to the Australian Jewish community than Australia's foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to emphasise how difficult it is to reach politicians and get them to hear your concerns and influence behaviours and actions. I know that when Josh Frydenberg became treasurer, a group called Jews for Baldness tried to reach him and encourage him to just shave it all off. They're like look, baldness, it's in, it's hot, just go with it, just accept it, just embrace it. And he never got that message. So if anyone needs any proof of just how difficult it is, I've just provided you with that. So you're welcome. So Dash, we've covered Jews in media, jewish lobbying and another area that's targeted by the haters and the trolls is philanthropy, which many conspiracy theorists think is just a way for Jewish people or Jewish families to covertly influence Australian society.
Speaker 1:Can you help me understand that a bit better.
Speaker 1:So, tammy, last week we were talking about some of Australia's richest Jewish families and individuals, and among those you've got a group of families and individuals that have decided to gift a lot of their fortune back to Australian'll see a number of examples of Jewish families giving in very generous ways to medical research, to the arts, to education, to cultural organisations, to Indigenous Australians.
Speaker 1:If there is an area of social inequality, inequity that those families haven't gifted to, I would be very surprised because between them all, they do an enormous amount for a range of areas in Australian society and unfortunately, they have been targeted post-October 7 because, in addition to that support, because in addition to that support, some of them also gift and gift generously to causes in Israel and to organisations that are very well known to the Jewish community but are now seen as being Tainted or tarnished. So they have been the subject of boycotts, particularly, I believe, the Gandall and Beeson Foundations, because of their support for arts and cultural organisations, and some folks online say that anyone who's working in the arts or the creative spaces in Australia shouldn't go to galleries that have had funding from these families, shouldn't apply for scholarships or fellowships that have been partly funded by these families.
Speaker 2:Which is a bit of a joke, considering a few people who are very vocal about this have, in fact, themselves been recipients of these scholarships and, as far as I know, have not offered to pay back the funding provided to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the hypocrisy is extraordinary.
Speaker 1:And if you were to boycott and to take a really hard line of completely disengaging from organisations or entering into spaces that these families have donated to, you would find that you wouldn't be able to enter into hospitals because some of the families have donated entire wings.
Speaker 1:These accusations, they are derived from a view that, whether these people say this openly or not, they believe that this is another form of, they would say, zionist, but really they mean Jewish control and power and that because of their connections to Israel, because of their support for Zionism, that makes them persona non grata, that makes them be in urgent need of being boycotted. I think what is quite reprehensible about it is it just flattens and conflates everyone together with one single accusation there's no room for nuance, there's no room for grey in this post-October 7th world. I mean, the reality is that this has been bubbling under the surface before that fateful day, but now the temperature is so high I guess the tactics that are being employed are becoming increasingly more radical and increasingly more irrational that almost anyone is now potentially a target. Anyone who, if they're Jewish or if they are an organization that is a Jewish affiliated or they express some form of sympathy for Israel or Israelis, that's reason to come within the sights of the haters.
Speaker 2:And I know that will be very difficult to change the mind of someone who doesn't even want to hear the other side to the story. But for people who are on the fence, I think it would be remiss of me not to mention this idea of tikkun olam healing the world, which is a really important Jewish value, and that many of these philanthropists really feel a sense of responsibility to contribute to society, australian society, in that way. I know that in 2002, frank Lowy released a statement it's on the Lowe Institute's website where he says that as the 50th anniversary of my arrival in Australia approached, I began to consider what philanthropic gesture I might make to the country in return for the half century of opportunity that Australia had given me. So I know that that was a big driving force behind setting up the Lowe Institute. And I obviously don't sit in the boardrooms and I'm not on the rich list, I've never been the recipient of grants.
Speaker 2:I just know that there are Jewish organizations and Jewish families who feel that it is necessary to engage in direct community support and education and public awareness and advocacy, and they're doing that to create a more equitable society. They're doing that because they feel a genuine call to create a better society. As much as I make fun of the Jews for complaining and having fetches and being cynical, I think deep down we are all truly optimistic and we just want to be the change that we see in the world. It might be naive of me to express myself in that way, but I just feel deeply disturbed when I, as you said Dash see the Jewish people and philanthropists and advocates put in that racist, self-obsessed power-hungry box.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just to underscore essentially what you just said and to bring this conversation back to where we started with this perverse idea that Jewish people are looking to influence public policy and debate to further their own agenda and ultimately, I guess, to shift Australia more towards supporting Israel and Zionism. Mark Leibler didn't spend decades fighting for recognition of Indigenous Australians in the Constitution and with the voice to Parliament because it was some kind of plot to build support for Israel. He's done it because he's been moved to fight for the rights of Indigenous Australians and to redress historical injustices done to them the Gandall and Beeson and Smorgon Foundations. They haven't donated hundreds of millions of dollars each year to hospitals and the arts and Indigenous organisations again because they wanted Australia's foreign policy to be pushed in the direction of Israel. They do it because they want to redress disadvantage and inequity in Australia and contribute in some lasting way, as you just said, to the future of this country. And Maurice Schwartz hasn't invested tens of millions of dollars in his media group over the last 20 years because he's some sort of undercover Zionist and wants to use his media outlets to again win people over in favor of Israel. He's done it because he believes in a vibrant, free and independent media in this country.
Speaker 1:Those organisations that I've just named and mentioned have been targeted in the most egregious of ways in the recent years, but in particular in the last six months, and purely and simply it's because they're Jewish and in some instances they also happen to have spoken out in support and in recognition of Israel and Israelis.
Speaker 1:So I know you want to leave this on a high note.
Speaker 1:I think that is where we should be landing this Ultimately, once all the nasty things have been said and all the nasty tweets have been fired off and all the people have had their little boycotts. We are going to have to live together in this country and we're going to have to learn to hear each other and understand each other better. And why do those individuals support causes in Israel in addition to supporting causes in Australia? Because Israelis and Jewish identity matters to them. It's an important part of their identity and the sooner that people can hear the voice of the other side and to understand and to not see their philanthropy or their lobbying as some kind of conspiracy or some kind of attempt at colluding and to influence and to shape and to wrap their tentacles around the world, whatever that line was that Jenny Leong used, the sooner that people can dismantle that line of thinking used, the sooner that people can dismantle that line of thinking, we can hopefully come back to a more human level, because I think that's been really lost in the last few months online.
Speaker 2:Shkoyach To life L'chaim. Before we wrap up today's show, we have another pronunciation patrol, I believe. So, dash, hit me with it.
Speaker 3:Hi, tammy and Dash. Pronunciation patrol on duty again. I do not look for mispronunciations, but they hit my ear when they are evident. So, tammy, you made a very apt, appropriate one At the end of the Seder special. You mentioned about being b'nai chorim free people but you pronounced it as b'nai chorim with an M at the end. I think that's an apt metaphor, because what you said would be we will be people of stuck in a hole, h-o-l-e. People of the hole. That's an apt metaphor for current times. Don't you think of the whole? That's an apt metaphor for current times, don't you think? Sometimes we feel like we're just stuck in a hole and there's no way out. But it is b'nei chorin with an N at the end. May we all be free. May the hostages be free soon. Amen.
Speaker 2:And that was my Year 7 and 8 Hebrew teacher. Gilda, I have the biggest smile on my face. I loved that. Please continue to send in your corrections. And yeah, I now identify as a person of the whole. I think that suits me.
Speaker 1:That's it for another week of A Shame to Admit, with Tammy Sussman and me, dash Lawrence. This is a TJR podcast.
Speaker 2:Today's episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with music by Donovan Donnie Jenks.
Speaker 2:We didn't mention any TJR articles in today's conversation, but articles that are adjacent to the conversation and some things we found interesting in our research we'll put in the show notes special thanks to god, who watched netflix's testament, the story of moses, over the weekend and was really confused to see themselves portrayed with a typically masculine voice yet again, while we all know God has no gender or voice. They always imagine themselves sounding more femme, a bit younger and much more nasal.
Speaker 1:If you like the podcast, leave a positive review, tell your friends, tell your rabbi. Just get the word out there, please. You can have a quail or a kvetch via the contact form on the Jewish Independent website or by emailing ashamed at thejewishindependentcomau. As always, thanks for your support and we can't wait to chat again with you next week. Thank you.