Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Summer Shames - The Christmas/Hanukkah Special
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Ashamed to Admit is taking a break over the summer, but Tami and Dash are bringing you short morsels of their the best/worst seasonal shames: welcome to Summer Shames.
Chrismukah, reenacting baby Jesus’s bris, nebbish pot plant decorations and the re-gifting section of your cupboard. It’s all here in the first instalment of Summer Shames.
Relevant articles:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/chrismukkah-is-not-a-competition
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/8-wacky-menorahs-you-need-to-see
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/christmas-still-rules-in-australias-secular-schools
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/this-christmas-i-give-you-my-heart-and-a-special-recipe
Email your feedback and voice memos here: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
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Celebrating Christmas as a Jewish Family
Speaker 1If you believe Santa is real, don't listen to this episode. It's Summer Shames. It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames.
Speaker 2Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed. We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1Is it a Jewish thing, maybe? You tell me, I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A Shame to Admit, I'm going to squeeze some of the chewiest shames out of TJI's Executive Director, dr Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2While your third cousin overshares her dewiest faux pas.
Speaker 1Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2Hey Tammy.
Speaker 1Dash.
Speaker 2This week is Hanukkah Christmas.
Speaker 1It's one of those rare occasions where Hanukkah and Christmas actually fall on the same day. I think that only happens every 18 years.
Speaker 2Really.
Speaker 1No, I just made that up because 18 in Judaism, 18 high, you got to give gifts that are in multiples of 18. Did you know that?
Speaker 2I did know that. Yeah, maybe we should ask ChatGPT how often this occurs. Anyway, the Jewish community has been going cray-cray over this the last few months.
Speaker 1Nobody says cray-cray anymore.
Speaker 2Okay, sorry. Anyway, the amount of times people have mentioned oh, did you know that Christmas is coinciding with Hanukkah this year? It doesn't mean anything. You know from a Jewish perspective, does it? I mean, you're still doing the same stuff on Christmas Day, right? You're still eating Chinese takeaway and watching Seinfeld reruns.
Speaker 1That's an Americanism.
Speaker 2Oh sorry.
Speaker 1No, that's okay. Maybe there are some Aussie Jews that eat Chinese on Christmas Day. I got distracted because I was asking ChatGPT how often they overlap.
Speaker 2What does she say?
Speaker 1Do you use she her pronouns for ChatGPT?
Speaker 2Yeah, oh, my God, I love that Okay, she's not a they them.
Speaker 1I reckon ChatGPT probably is non-binary dash, but I love that you went with she her over he him. We're going to lose a few boomers over that little bit. Christmas and Hanukkah can coincide or overlap occasionally because the two holidays follow different calendars. Here's how it happens and why.
Speaker 2Oh, there's a why I love it.
Speaker 1Christmas is always celebrated on December 25th on the Gregorian calendar. Hanukkah falls on the 25th of Kislev on the Hebrew calendar which is lunar-based, meaning its date on the Gregorian calendar varies each year. Yeah, we knew that. Okay, and Hanukkah typically lasts for eight days. The complete overlap of the entirety of Hanukkah lines with Christmas Day is rare but possible.
Speaker 2It's like a lunar eclipse right Happens like once every few centuries.
Speaker 1Yeah, maybe I don't know. The partial overlap, which means Christmas Day falls during one of Hanukkah's eight days, is more common, and no overlap is also common. Okay, statistical frequency about 30 to 40% of years. See, at least one day of Hanukkah coincide with Christmas day. You know me, numbers and statistics don't compute in my brain. What does that mean? About 30 to 40% of years? Maths also isn't your strong suit, is it?
Speaker 2Correct me if I'm wrong. The first day of Hanukkah is aligned with Christmas day for the first time in a long time.
Speaker 1Yeah, hang on. So this year, hanukkah starts on December 25th and Christmas coincides with the first day of Hanukkah, and then it's going to happen again in 2027.
Speaker 2Oh my God, I don't know if I can handle this twice in two years Too hectic.
Speaker 1I'm going to say when is it going to happen again?
Speaker 2I need a break. I need a break.
Speaker 1Just relax.
Speaker 2When is it going to happen again? Anyway, look, it doesn't really matter, oh, in 2031.
Speaker 1And then again in 2045. I think I've gone a bit too deep on that. I think our listeners want us to move on.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1This is going to be very exciting for the interfaith couples who celebrate both Christmas and Hanukkah. It'll be very exciting that they can do it at the same time. It'll be like a mutual orgasm.
Speaker 2It will be. Yeah, totally it will be the ultimate. Sorry, I just realised what you said.
Speaker 1It'll be the ultimate coming together.
Speaker 2It will be the ultimate coming together of the Abrahamic faiths.
Speaker 1Yeah Dash. I know that at least 30 to 40% of our listeners still don't believe me when I say that you're not Jewish. But in your family I know you're raising your boys as Jews Jewish, but in your family I know you're raising your boys as Jews. But are you also celebrating Christmas as a way of holding onto your childhood a bit of nostalgia, honouring your family traditions?
Speaker 2Well, yeah, because we go and stay with my Adelaide family every year. You know, naturally they want to enjoy all of the traditions that we've celebrated and they want to. You know, naturally they want to enjoy all of the traditions that we've celebrated and they want to. You know, they want our boys to experience the joy of Christmas in, I guess, much the same way that I did growing up. So my dad and stepmother will be, will have, you know, the Christmas presents and the Christmas tree, christmas tree, and we'll create a whole thing around the fact that Santa had been overnight and we will have left out biscuits and milk and carrots for the reindeers, and my eldest loves this Youngest is not quite yet ready to understand what this is all about, but my eldest thinks this is so cool.
Speaker 2So he is like the most Christmas loving Jewish five-year-old you have ever come across. The past few days he's been wearing his reindeer t-shirt and he's starting to rock his Christmas hat and he also wants a elf little Santa's elf outfit to wear over the coming weeks. So, yeah, there's no way that we could turn this back and say, oh look, actually, mate, sorry, father, christmas doesn't exist and because you're Jewish, we probably shouldn't celebrate Christmas. Like you know, we want him to enjoy all the aspects of his heritage. We don't have a Christmas tree at our house here in Melbourne and we don't give him Christmas presents, but his Adelaide non-Jewish family certainly does and he loves it.
Speaker 1Can you remind me why you said because we're Jewish, we probably shouldn't celebrate Christmas? Why is that? I personally don't see a problem, as a Jew, with celebrating Christmas.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't realise that's what I said. I think I but a lot of people think agree with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't realize that's what I said, I think.
Speaker 1I but a lot of people think agree with you.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think for our family it is to honor the festivals and the traditions of both sides of the family.
Speaker 1But a lot of people agree with you. I'm not asking about your family, though. I'm asking about the general Jewish population. Why is it Like we're not asking families to go to church? I mean, shouldn't we be celebrating the birth of a Jewish child Like? Shouldn't we all actually be making kiddushas, inviting everyone over reenacting the circumcision and then eating some salmon bagels?
Speaker 2We know what that would make you and we know that would make you a Messianic Jew, and we know.
Speaker 1Oh, a Jew for Jesus.
Speaker 2It would make you a Jew for Jesus, and we know just how welcome and much loved those people are in the Jewish community.
Speaker 1I'm not asking everyone to love Jesus or to believe that Jesus is a saviour. I'm just saying let's celebrate the more Jews, the merrier yeah.
Speaker 2Look, it's actually probably not really a question for me to answer. It's more something for you to answer. Tammy, Would you like to create Christmas traditions in your household with your girls?
Speaker 1I would Would you? Yeah, but the thing with me is it's not my religiousness inverted commas holding me back. It's not my faith holding me back, it's laziness. I don't have the energy or the capacity to schlep a tree into my house and decorate it, even if I was decorating it with blue tinsel and shoving a hanukki at the top, Like I've barely got the energy to get dinner on the table seven nights a week.
Speaker 1I have no problem with my kids celebrating Christmas. They absolutely love Christmas. When we're in the shopping centres, they are like moths to a flame at the Christmas scenes. At the Christmas scenes they really want to sit on Santa's lap. It's fun, it's festive and kids love that. And they go to a non-denominational kindergarten where Christmas is celebrated and kids love getting shit. They love presents.
Speaker 2They love presents. So for you, practically, it is a great way to save money and just to mean that you've got, you know, less hassle. You can just say we're jewish, sorry no presents, sorry no tree absolutely.
Speaker 1We live in an apartment block at the moment and I've noticed that our neighbors are putting wreaths on their front door and they look so beautiful. It actually makes my heart smile when I get to my level. So I'm thinking that's something I could handle. That could be a craft activity. We could make a blend. It can have some red and green in there. It can have some blue and white in there too. We can find a way to make that work.
Speaker 2It could have a big thumping Star of David.
Speaker 1We could.
Speaker 2So what was it like for you guys growing up? What happened in the Sussman household?
Speaker 1So we celebrated Hanukkah. We went to modern Orthodox Jewish day schools. Most of our family friends were not Jewish and they celebrated Christmas, so we spent a lot of time going into their homes helping them decorate their Christmas trees. On Christmas Day, my mum would decorate a little nebbish pot plant with some tinsel so that we had a Christmas tree as well, and I think that was her way of getting around the fact that she didn't want us to be spoiled with too many Hanukkah presents. So she's like one of them's for Christmas and the other one's for Hanukkah.
Speaker 1What my parents failed to do, however, was to explain to me that, even though we didn't celebrate Christmas or even though we were Jewish, that we needed to respect other people's religious beliefs. So I was that kid who went into all of these homes and told the kids that Santa wasn't real, and as I got a bit older, that morphed into. You know, isn't Santa like a bit pervy, sneaking into your room while you're asleep, leaving Christmas presents? You know, eating your cookies? Like what else is he doing while you're sleeping?
Speaker 2Just couldn't help yourself, could you?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think now it's starting to make sense as to why my parents aren't really friends with those families anymore.
Speaker 2Yeah, had to cut you out.
Speaker 1The penny is dropping. I don't remember this, but my sister has a really strong memory of the two of us going and sitting on Santa's lap as kids at Westfield East Gardens in Pagewood back in the 90s and she remembers sitting on Santa's lap and he says what would the two of you like for Christmas? I looked him in the face and I said I'm Jewish.
Speaker 2And then he threw you off the lap and said get out of here. This is only for Christians.
Speaker 1Yeah, so she actually stroked her beer and said me too babe.
Speaker 2Have you ever been forced into, like you know, the workplace secret Santa's or made to either give a gift or receive a gift?
Speaker 1All the time. I don't have a problem with it. I don't see it as being forced into it and I don't feel like I have this need or this urgency to say, actually I don't really get involved in that because I'm Jewish, like it's a festival just like any other. I think I'd have a problem if I was forced into taking part in Ramadan, not because I have an issue with Islam, but I have an issue with not eating. But I think Christmas is so innocuous and it's festive and it's fun. If you had to spend more than $30 on a secret Santa, I'd put my foot down, but if it's just you know $10, that's great. I'm really excited to receive my shitty hand cream that I will then pass on to my grandmother when I see her next Dash. I suppose the most important question of this episode would be Do you and Susie have a re-gifting drawer or re-gifting cupboard where you put all the shit gifts that you've received and wait until there's an opportunity to give it to someone else?
Speaker 2I'm not one for re-gifting generally. Once you reach a certain age, as most people know, you don't generally get a lot of gifts. I don't get many birthday presents, for instance, anymore. This is not. I'm not looking for sympathy, it's fine. I don't need gifts. I'm an adult now.
Speaker 1What if someone gives your kids a gift? That's a bit shit. Do you have a designated place where you put that gift? Where is it?
Speaker 2No, we don't have a designated place, but 100% like we get. The kids have got too much stuff as it is anyway. No complaints, very lucky. They're all lovely gifts, but there's only so many.
Funny Gift Receiving and Regifting Stories
Speaker 1Sounds like a fetch to me.
Speaker 2Versions of the under eights monopoly that you can receive. I think at last count we received three at one birthday. You just don't need three.
Speaker 1That must be a Melbourne thing, because you're all intellectuals. I've never seen an under-8s monopoly. It's probably been the right age level for me.
Speaker 2I would have thought that would be totally, totally down for the eastern suburbs of Sydney where you're all playing monopoly, aren't you with you?
Speaker 1No, we just get under eights fake tan to get us speech ready Dash. I will put money on the fact that your partner, susie, has a designated spot for her re-gifts. I don't like to play the gender card, as you know, but I do think that it's innate and I think, when you talk about biology, I think that people who are assigned female at birth have a innate desire to have a designated spot for shit gifts that they can then re-gift to other people. Have you ever had a awkward re-gifting experience where you've accidentally re-gifted a gift to the person who gave it to you?
Speaker 2No, never had that. Have you had that?
Speaker 1Mine is even worse.
Speaker 2Uh-oh, tell me all about it.
Speaker 1Back when I used to perform comedy, I had a little segment.
Speaker 2Used to you do that every week with me on this show had a little segment used to. You do that every week with me on this show back when I used to perform the more traditional medium of stand-up comedy yep stand-up live comedy.
Speaker 1I used to have a little segment halfway through the show and it was called the re-gifting segment, where I would bring shit gifts to re-gift to people in the audience. Now, sometimes it would be a lucky door prize, so people would get a raffle ticket when they arrived and I used to get Granny Betty to give out the raffle tickets. But then sometimes there would be like a bidding war and whoever wanted the thing that I'd brought the most or whoever needed it the most would get it. It was really great fun. Around 12 to 15 years ago I was performing. I had brought along some body butter that someone had gifted me to use in the regifting segment.
Speaker 1The flavor of the body butter was margarita flavor oh, that's so bad when I brought this out, most of the audience had a very similar reaction to you. I said I'm never going to apply margarita body butter to my body. Is there anyone in the audience who would? Most people had visible? Yeah, backed away, but there were there, anyone in the?
Speaker 1audience who would Most people had visible. Yeah, backed away. But there were two people in the front row who were laughing hysterically. I was like this is a funny bit, but it's not that funny. And I said to them what's going on and they said that's our body butter business.
Speaker 2Oh God, oh boy. Well, at least they had a good sense of humour about it.
Speaker 1They said, yeah, that one wasn't really a bestseller. And there was someone in the audience, some desperate person with body odour, who thought anything is better than what's going on now. So it all worked out.
Speaker 2Apply the margarita, they did. I do have a very quick story for you.
Speaker 1Oh good.
Speaker 2There was one year when we were here in Melbourne and we did a Christmaka with extended Jewish families who, you know, still wanted to gather and be together on a day, and so created a kind of a Christmas style lunch, which let's call Christmaka style lunch, which let's call Chris Mecca, and one particular person there that day brought gifts for everyone and they were clearly gifts that they had collected in hard rubbish. But they didn't say that and I was given like an old Mickey Mouse tie, like as a clearly old and sort of dated Mickey Mouse tie, which you know what does that say about me? Like I know, the Mickey Mouse tie that's perfect for Dash, the grubby old secondhand Mickey Mouse tie.
Speaker 1Did it have a smell?
Speaker 2Oh it was gross, it was filthy. Susie got like a package of unopened, very cheap Israeli body products. That-.
Speaker 1Had expired.
Speaker 2I think were manufactured in the 1990s.
Speaker 1I know exactly. It's the Ahava mud, isn't it? From the Dead Sea?
Speaker 2Probably yeah.
Speaker 1I mean to be fair. That stuff does last a very long time. It probably was still good.
Speaker 2Yeah, but I think I turfed that out as quickly as I could.
Speaker 1Dash, do you reckon those people listen to this show, and if so, do you want to keep in this story?
Speaker 2I'll have to have a think about it.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2Tammy. Now this episode is coming out on Christmas Eve, or Christmas Eve or Hanukkah Eve, whatever you want to call it this year. So most folks have already done their Christmas or Hanukkah shopping. But when the sales are on, when you're heading back out to the shops, hit the Boxing Day sales. Make your way to a bookshop and get a copy of Tiny Tradies, the Aussie Word Book authored by Nala Van Tammy Sussman and illustrated by Tom Jellett Folks, if you haven't got yourself a copy of the original Tiny Tradies written by Tammy and illustrated by Tom, highly recommend you do that. But this talented duo have come out with a follow-up which my boys absolutely love. It is the Aussie Word Book Edition of Tiny Tradies.
Speaker 1Thank you so much, Dash. That means a lot to me. I'm so humbled by that little plug.
Speaker 2It's a great addition to the kids' book shelf slash library.
Speaker 1Underneath the Christmaka tree or just below the crappy craft wreath on the outside of your apartment door.
Speaker 2And a great thing to re-gift if you need to as well. We're enjoying our copy. So much, we're not going to re-gift it, but you better f***ing not.
Speaker 1You've been listening to Summer Shames, the Schvitzisch Fester podcast of a shame to admit.
Speaker 2Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by me, dash Lawrence and Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe the sunscreen off your hands and leave a review.
Speaker 1Or if you're in a different hemisphere, Dash, because we forgot that some of our listeners live overseas and it's not summer there. Remove your mittens and give us some stars. We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2As always. Thanks for the support and we look forward to Kitzel your ears next week.
Speaker 1You chose Yiddish. That's very racist. What about Kosses in Ladino? Or Dig Dug in Hebrew? Tickle, Give your ears a little tickle. Or Zug Zug Ladino. Or dig dug in Hebrew tickle, give your ears a little tickle. Or zug zug.
Speaker 2I only know Kitzel. I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1Okay.