Ashamed to Admit
It's everything you didn't get in Jewish Studies class and a lot you probably didn't know you needed.
Ashamed to Admit is the podcast for anyone who's ever nodded along in a conversation about Jewish history, culture, or current events while internally panicking.
Hosted by comedians Tami Sussman and Shoshana Gottlieb, each episode breaks down the big, chewy, occasionally ridiculous questions of Jewish life, identity and community, with warmth, wit, and zero judgment.
From ancient texts to antisemitism to whether you can use a vibrator on Shabbat, nothing is off limits.
Funny, irreverent, and genuinely educational. You don't have to be Jewish to love it. But it helps to have a sense of humour.
Ashamed to Admit
Summer Shames - What embarrassing music do you listen to?
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From kitsch Irish Folk to attending a Hanson concert as a fully grown adult, this second instalment of Summer Shames is the perfect antidote to peacocking your 2024 Spotify Wrapped.
If you like this episode, you might like:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/comfort-using-music-to-heal-post-october-7
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/the-best-jewish-cultural-moments-of-2024
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/listen-to-this-australian-jewish-musicians-you-should-know
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Summer Shames and Spotify Preferences
Speaker 1It's Summer Shames , it's Summer Shames , it's Summer Shames .
Speaker 2Hmm , he says he's not ashamed .
Speaker 1I'm ashamed , you're ashamed , they should be ashamed . We call that repressed shame .
Speaker 2Well , she needs to tame the shame and move on .
Speaker 1Is it a Jewish thing , maybe ?
Speaker 2You tell me .
Speaker 1I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A Shame to Admit , I'm going to squeeze some of the chewiest shames out of TJI's Executive Director , dr Dashiell Lawrence .
Speaker 2While your third cousin overshares her chewiest faux pas .
Speaker 1Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames .
Speaker 2Hey Tammy .
Speaker 1Dashiell .
Speaker 2We are approaching the time of year when Spotify release their annual Spotify Wrap , which , for those of you who don't know , it's where Spotify , the music playing library platform , compiles a list of all of your most played and engaged with songs for the year . Some people get very excited about it , you know . They share it on social media . They want to tell their friends hey , look at all the cool new songs I've been listening to .
Speaker 1They want to peacock yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , Like it's a way , I guess , of showing your taste .
Speaker 1They want to be smug .
Speaker 2Yeah , I have never shared my Spotify rap with my friends , with anyone .
Speaker 1Why not .
Speaker 2Well , I don't have , so my Spotify is on private . I don't actually like people to know what songs I'm listening to , and the whole notion of telling people what you listen to is and kind of sharing that like a social media thing is really antithetical , is really odd to me .
Speaker 1Same . It's so exposing . In fact , you just freaked me out and now I'm thinking how do I make sure that my Spotify what do you mean it can be public ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , because you're like people can find you on Spotify and follow you and then see what songs you've been playing . I want to see if I can find you on here .
Speaker 1Oh no , Didn't you know this , no , I told you I'm like the dumbest smart person you know .
Speaker 2So , like a few years ago , a friend of mine was like this is before . I sort of put it on private . He was like mate , what's with all that crap ? Irish folk music you listen to Okay .
Speaker 1Go on .
Speaker 2What is with ?
Speaker 1all the crap Irish folk music that you listen to . Now we're getting somewhere .
Speaker 2Well , you know , like with music , there is a song for every mood , for every day , for every week . Well , I don't always just want to listen to the same shit , right ? Sometimes I'm feeling nostalgic and I feel like I want a kind of like a warm , comforting blanket , and the music of my childhood sometimes is what I need , and my parents were both quite eclectic array of music and I heard all kinds of sounds growing up and mum had quite a yeah , she had like a kind of an Irish folk thing going on there for a while and yeah , it's stuck with me . I mean , it's not on high rotation , it wouldn't appear on my Spotify wrap for 2024 , tammy , if that's what you're wondering . No , but from time to time I will , you know , bring out a little bit of Irish folk . Now , I'm not talking like Riverdance style , you know , fiddler , but that's what you were thinking weren't you ?
Speaker 1No , I'm not going to shame you . Do you have Irish ancestry ?
Speaker 2A little bit Not enough to justify listening to this music .
Speaker 1Okay , Because it is shameful . I mean it's like .
Speaker 2Culturally it's a bit shameful .
Speaker 1I don't think it's shameful . I mean , it's obviously not something that you're going to play to your partner to kind of get her in the mood , but yeah , you're right . It to your partner to kind of get her in the mood ? But yeah , you're right , it's a certain there's a time and place for everything . Actually , my kids really like Irish folk music , which is completely random , right .
Speaker 1My kids love Drunken Sailor and they know all the words , and it took a few times of them singing it for me to realise that one of the lyrics is put him in the bed with the captain's daughter . Put him in the bed with the captain's daughter .
Speaker 2Oh God , I know Not good .
Speaker 1So every time that line comes on , I quickly turn the volume down and then have to turn it back up again . And then , because they were liking that so much , the Spotify algorithm obviously suggested another song , the Star of the County Down , which was my kids pronounce down .
Speaker 2Uh-oh .
Speaker 1They constantly scream out mum put on the down .
Speaker 2That is not my idea of Irish folk music , by the way .
Speaker 1Okay , it's not . What would you call that ?
Speaker 2Oh God , I don't know . Yeah , you're sort of thinking of this genre in terms of , like , imagine going to a sort of boozy Irish pub on a Friday night and everyone's gathered around and it's very sort of upbeat . No , yes , no , that's not potentially what I'm thinking of , but I do think that children do kind of respond to music in interesting and intriguing ways . So , like , my son is really locked on to pop music , like lots of kids . But then I introduced him to Bruce Springsteen and now he's like you know , every second time we get into the car he'll be like Dad , can you put the boss on ? He just loves the boss .
Speaker 1I can hear your felling . I can hear the nachos in your voice . I can hear your felling . I can hear the naches in your voice . The Spotify rap is kind of unfair for people who have kids , because surely- 100% . That's going to screw around with the- . Not the authenticity . What am I trying to say ? That's going to interfere with the- .
Speaker 2I'm going to blame it all on my kids .
Speaker 1You're a big Taylor Swift fan , aren't you ?
Speaker 2I like Taylor Swift .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Sully likes Sabrina Carpenter and particularly Espresso , and Taylor Swift has been on heavy rotation this year , which I don't mind . But yeah , I fully expect that I'll be .
Speaker 1You're playing that down . What do you mean ? You don't mind . You once came into the podcast studio humming a tune and I said what are you singing ? And you said oh , it's Tay-Tay . And you know , she's actually really talented . I'm really into her music .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's not . I don't feel like it's a shameful thing , for , like , everyone's listening to her now , not just everyone , but , like you know , people that you would expect to be self-conscious about listening to Tay-Tay are now acknowledging that she's a genius and she's entertaining .
Speaker 1I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not into her . What ? How can you not enjoy Taylor Swift ? I can acknowledge that she is a very talented songwriter and performer , but her songs don't make my kishkas tingle , sorry . They just don't do it for me .
Speaker 2Are they vapid ? Are they too lacking in substance ?
Speaker 1No , I don't think they're lacking in substance . It's just not compelled . Sometimes it's just you don't feel it . It's kind of like you might recall back to your dating days that there might be someone who's great on paper , but there's just no chemistry .
Speaker 2They might tick all the boxes beautiful , smart , talented , but like you , just there's just something there that is don't you feel like you needed to sometimes maybe push through and give it a go and that the chemistry comes over time ? And likewise with the music . You can't expect on the first listen , to instantly feel it that you've actually got to listen to it . You know , because that was actually to my mind when you used to buy records and listen to them from start to finish . That was actually the sign sometimes of a brilliant album , was one where you would listen to it and you're like this is not good , this was a bad choice . I feel like I just wasted money on this album , but actually you stay with it and keep playing it over and over again . You're like , actually , this is really good , this is really speaking to me so true .
Speaker 2You know , that's true .
Speaker 1And my sister , who used to be my prime dating advice offerer , she did say you always go on a second date , like obviously , if they're like high on the first date or you know they're a criminal , then you get the hell out of there . But even if you're not feeling it , you always give them a second chance .
Speaker 2Yeah , oh , that's beautiful , beautiful sentiments . Everyone deserves a second chance . Beautiful , beautiful sentiments Everyone deserves a second chance .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , Speaking of dating when I was dating in my early 20s .
Musical Memories and Guilty Pleasures
Speaker 1If someone were to say so , what kind of music do you ? Listen to oh yeah , I would say to them , I would sooner show you my diary for you to read than tell you what music I listen to Okay . It's so personal and so exposing .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . Well , you really do want to get your Spotify on private . Then what's the discomfort about not even sharing some bits ? Are you going to do that now , are you ?
Speaker 1going to tell me a little bit about what you listen to , I think , where it stems from the shame is high school , when I was in a vocal group and I said to the music teacher , who I didn't necessarily see as a cool person . I said can we please sing some ABBA songs ? Because , I loved ABBA . It was something that my parents loved and my grandmother loved , and she looked at me and she said oh my God , Tammy , you're such a dag .
Speaker 1And so she shamed me for loving Abba as a teenager . I'm not ashamed that I loved the Spice Girls . The first cassette I ever got was Meryl Bainbridge Under the Water . Do you remember ?
Speaker 2And what Bainbridge Under the Water ?
Speaker 1Do you remember ?
Speaker 2And what was the like Under ?
Speaker 1the water .
Speaker 2Yeah , keep going .
Speaker 1Oh , when I kiss your salty lips .
Speaker 2That's right . You will feel a little griever for me , we'll be famous on TV . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , I remember that that was . Yeah , that was vintage early 90s , late 90s , oh , late 90s , was it ?
Speaker 1Mid to late 90s . So there was a lot of Meryl Bainbridge , all Saints , spice Girls .
Speaker 2Hanson Wow , now you're taking me back .
Speaker 1My heart stops when I think about Hanson and how much I loved .
Speaker 2Hanson , tell me more .
Speaker 1I even threw a birthday party to honour their birthdays . I was obsessed with Zach Hanson .
Speaker 2That's it . Yeah , please stop . That's it . Da-do-ba , da-do-ba , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Like we used to have a subject called creative writing where you could just write freely and all of my stories were fan fiction about Zach Hansen falling in love with me , and my teacher used to find them so amusing that he used to get me to stand and read the stories to the entire class .
Speaker 2And there was no shame there for you .
Speaker 1Back then , no shame . And then a lot of listening to 104.1 , today FM , all the like top 20 . And then you get to a point where , like I really liked the art and drama department in my high school , the teachers were really cool and Mr Needham , who potentially listens to this show , I remember vividly being in like year 11 or 12 and he was like you listen to pop music and I was like , yeah , and he's like no , no , you need to listen to FBI 94.5 , independent community radio station based in Sydney and it supports local music , arts and culture . And yeah , he got me into that .
Speaker 2And you're just like boring .
Speaker 1No , I was like I need to get into that . Oh , you got into that .
Speaker 2Okay , your journey away from being a normie began .
Speaker 1That's where it all began , with me trying to impress my art teacher .
Speaker 2Okay , cool . Thank you , mr Needham . So , yeah , back to this year's Spotify . Is there anything that you are just a little bit ashamed that people might say or to share ? Is there anything that you're ashamed to share with us that's likely to appear on your Spotify ?
Speaker 1songs that are like .
Speaker 2Super dewy .
Speaker 1I don't even know how to describe it Like strong female hip hop .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1Artists international . Not all of them are in English . I love listening to that when I'm driving by myself . It's like as soon as the kids are out of the car and I can put on that . That's what I play .
Speaker 2But it doesn't sound like something one would be ashamed of this .
Speaker 1There is a song called Buttons , which is a TikTok remix of the Pussycat Dolls Loosen up your buttons .
Speaker 2Why would one get ashamed about the music you listen to ? And it's usually a reflection of low culture . But then there's some low culture that , like that you just described , that's sort of been meme-ified or is a product of the internet which people who would typically look down upon low culture would actually embrace . And then there's some things that are sort of yeah , of kind of low culture . Other bits of low culture that sort of get through . But that's where the shame comes from .
Speaker 1I reckon I suppose so is that why you're ashamed to admit that you love Coldplay ?
Speaker 2I am ashamed to admit that I listen to Coldplay again because it kind of goes back to like my teen years slash early 20s . Where see , I listened to Coldplay really early on , before they became massive .
Speaker 1That's what everyone says , but I believe you .
Speaker 2Oh mate , 2001, . Right , their debut album comes out . This is before Yellow hit the heights that it did . I mean it came soon after the heights of Yellow and the rest of the album Parachutes . All that success came pretty much soon after that . But there was a brief moment there where that album was like was an indie album that kind of came from nowhere , and it resonated with me Like as you mentioned before , like how some songs and some music you just connect with straight away .
Speaker 2I connected with that album so deeply that album Parachutes . I still think it's a brilliant album and I have no shame about telling people that . But then obviously they became very popular and their music , their sound did change and you know , all of a sudden you had all kinds of people sometimes with you know probably quite questionable musical tastes and I guess they kind of got lumped in with the masses . That's unfortunate , because I actually do and still think that they're very talented and I still want the Coldplay of that indie album of 2001 in my mind . But you know I couldn't really continue on publicly listening to Coldplay or publicly being seen as a Coldplay fan . But you know , the older I get , the less uncomfortable I am about the fact that I like Coldplay , that Coldplay would regularly feature in my I wouldn't say that actually regularly features in my Spotify raps , but it definitely is something that I'm reaching for . Once a week , once every couple of weeks , I'll be whacking on even some of their more recent super popular , super normal basic music .
Speaker 1I'm ashamed to admit that I shamed my friends who still liked , you know , super commercial music in our early twenties and I was constantly shaming their playlist and trying to get them to listen to the songs that I was listening to on Triple J . I'm ashamed to admit that I still enjoy listening to Triple J . I'm definitely too old to be listening to it . What music concerts did you go to as a teenager ?
Speaker 2So after I finished school I went and worked in the UK for a year and there was an incredibly popular band that summer of 2003 called Busted . They were called Busted and like just a classic pop band boy band , you know the type Think of One Direction in more recent years as probably a more popular version , a more successful version . So this band , busted , had an album that had a few songs that were incredibly catchy and , you know , hit the top of the pops and they were the hot thing of 2003 . And I was with a group of people that were all listening to that .
Speaker 2Again , I would have been ashamed to say that I wasn't a fan . We did go to a free concert once where they were playing and then more recently they came out here to Australia years later , right 20 years after the success of their first album , and they played in Sydney and some of the people that I worked with were talking about going . Yeah , there was a real dilemma , like do I actually come out and , you know , relive those glory days when actually I'm not really sure how I feel about the music ? There is some catchiness there and then there is some nostalgia , but also it's really bad pop music .
Speaker 1I have a similar story In 2005, . In my gap year I did a weekly acting course at NIDA and there was a boy that used to fly in from Brisbane every Sunday to take this class and then he'd fly back that night and because I lived close to the airport , I offered to drive him back to the airport after each class and he said to me at the end of the year Tammy , thank you so much for all of this . I obviously owe you a favor . If you ever need a favor , call on me Now . This boy's name is George Shepard . This boy's name is George Shepard and he became the front man of the band Shepard .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , they're huge . Now they were on Ellen . Oh , wow , okay .
Speaker 1They're huge . They're doing so so well .
Speaker 2Georgie boy .
Speaker 1A few years ago I heard that Hanson were coming to Sydney for a concert .
Speaker 2Catch up with your ex-boyfriend .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm not a concert person , I don't like crowds , but I was like I think for the sake of nostalgia , I have to go to this concert . But tickets were outrageously expensive and I saw that they had the same music tour promoter as Shepard . So I texted George and I said , george , what can you do ? He got me two tickets .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1I took a friend . We went there , wow , and it was one of the most disappointing experiences of my life because I wanted them to play the middle of nowhere album that I knew all the songs to .
Speaker 2The bangers .
Speaker 1Exactly , and instead they were playing like their new shit , which I didn't know .
Speaker 2Oh , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no no .
Speaker 1You don't do that .
Speaker 2No , no no , no , no , no , no no .
Speaker 1Yeah , and a lot of like geriatric millennials , just kind of swaying and like you know , they knew all the songs and we were like we do not belong here .
Speaker 2But also they had to get home by nine o'clock because you know they'd have their kids waking them up the next morning at six o'clock , so they couldn't exactly stay out . So it was the energy was low .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it was a standing concert too , and you know when you're Ashkenazi Jew with arthritis like you don't want to be in a standing concert . Nah , You've been listening to Summer Shames , the Shvitsi Shvesta podcast of a shame to admit
Seasonal Review and Language Play
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by me , Dash Lawrence and Tammy Sussman .
Speaker 1These episodes are edited by Nick King .
Speaker 2If you like what we're doing , it's time to wipe the sunscreen off your hands and leave a review .
Speaker 1Or if you're in a different hemisphere , dash , because we forgot that some of our listeners live overseas and it's not summer there . Remove your mittens and give us some stars . We'll take five of them , thanks .
Speaker 2As always . Thanks for the support and we look forward to Kitzel your Ears next week .
Speaker 1You chose Yiddish . That's very racist . What about koses in Ladino ? Or dig dug in Hebrew ? Tickle , give your ears a little tickle , or zug zug .
Speaker 2I only know Kitzel . I've got a book about Kitzel .
Speaker 1Okay .