Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Summer Shames – Back to School Special
The end of January means ‘back to school’ time here in Australia. Counting down the days to regain your personal space? Enjoy a bit of nostalgia? Still wake up at 4am to ruminate about the shameful thing you did in Grade 4? You’ll enjoy the very last instalment of “Summer Shames”.
This episode was brought to you by Talia Levy Realty
https://www.talialevyrealty.com.au/
https://www.instagram.com/talia_levy_realty/
If you like this episode, you might like:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/a-week-of-fighting-australias-antisemitism-crisis
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/when-they-ask-about-doing-well-at-school
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/owning-the-problems-in-jewish-schools-is-necessary-for-change
Email your feedback and voice memos here: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
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It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames.
Speaker 2:Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1:I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed. We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2:Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1:Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2:You tell me.
Speaker 1:I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A Shame to Admit, I'm going to squeeze some of the chewiest shames out of TJI's Executive Director, dr Dachshund Lawrence.
Speaker 2:While your third cousin overshares her chewiest faux pas.
Speaker 1:Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2:Hi Tammy.
Speaker 1:Hi Dash, how are you going?
Speaker 2:Pretty good, you know, getting through some hot days, getting through a lot of childcare, looking after the kids, while also still juggling work and all the other demands of life.
Speaker 1:The parents are looking tired at this time of year in Australia, especially parents of small kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, take my children please. Yeah, I'll be saying to their carer and their teacher very shortly.
Speaker 1:So the private schools in Australia, at least in Sydney, are going back around the end of Jan, public schools beginning of Feb. It's got me thinking about school again, starting school.
Speaker 2:Back to school. What a time of year, yeah. It always evokes a lot for me whenever you get to the end of January. So it takes me right back to my particularly my primary school years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same here. I remember towards the end of January when the Officeworks back to school ads started coming on the television that I knew I was in trouble. I was like no, it's coming for us, it's back again.
Speaker 1:But did love a little Officeworks haul as a no, yeah, it's coming for us. Oh, it's back again. But did love a little Officeworks haul as a kid. Yeah Dash, the reason why I've brought you here today for our final Summer Shames episode before we go back to programming as usual, when I wake up at 4am to ruminate about all of my regrets, all the stupid things I've said, which you might be surprised to hear is quite an extensive list.
Speaker 2:I'm not surprised to hear that. I am surprised that you wake up at 4.30, though that's unnecessary.
Speaker 1:So quite often when I wake up at 4.30 in the morning, I think about primary school, the silly things I said, the naughty things I did, and I have some regrets. I don't have regrets about the cheekiness, I just have regrets about the people who were caught in the crossfire. The reason that I'm not ashamed of what I did anymore is because it has since made for great storytelling, a lot of which is in my middle grade novels. So that happened.
Speaker 2:Okay, very nice. So this is also a plug for your most recent book, nice.
Speaker 1:It's not a plug for my most recent book. However, just as an aside before I continue on with today's episode, a lot of the things that happened in that book were inspired by not based on inspired by true events that took place in a primary school and a synagogue in the suburb of Kingsford, maroubra, right of Kingsford.
Speaker 1:Maroubra which, as we have just discovered, is the site close by the childcare centre that got firebombed. So I don't want to bring the tone down, but I just want to say that when stuff like that happens, anti-semitic, anti-jewish attacks, happens anti-Semitic anti-Jewish attacks.
Speaker 1:It does really hit different when it's in your neighborhood and I just want to acknowledge that I'm thinking of all the people in that area, I mean all around Australia. But this week has been particularly difficult, but, true to form, particularly difficult but true to form. I will be using humour as a way of coping and processing.
Speaker 2:So Dash, I will be sharing some of the most shameful things that.
Speaker 1:I did in primary and high school.
Speaker 2:But first I will be selecting the highlights.
Speaker 1:Okay, because you're right, it is a long list. But first I'm going to throw to you and ask what kind of a kid were you?
Speaker 2:Well, like you, I do have many shameful episodes. They don't wake me up at 4.30 in the morning and I don't continue to cogitate over them, but there are some things that come up every now and again, Because we're talking about primary school kids and the fact that you and I both have children that are starting school this year, which is thrilling and exciting and nerve-wracking, and all those things my mind does take me back to those sort of earliest foundational experiences at school where I got into some sort of trouble, which was you'd be surprised to know, Tammy quite frequent when I was in primary school. Look, this is not particularly shameful, but it definitely stayed in my memory and has been evoked in more recent times. My memory and has been evoked in more recent times. So, when I was in year one, they built a brand new playground in my primary school and naturally all the children were incredibly excited about it and it was a big deal for the school and our year one teacher instructed us all to illustrate the new playground, and I wasn't much of a drawer or an illustrator.
Speaker 2:I was, however, obsessed with flags and Japan, so for some reason, the playground was illustrated with a giant Japanese flag in the middle of it, even though there wasn't one there. And when the teacher came around to examine and make commentary on the various illustrations of the playground, she stopped at mine and held it up and acknowledged in front of the class that my playground looks nothing like the one outside. And she grabbed me by the hand. She was angry, Took me outside yeah, I know You're looking quizzically, it's very, very strange Dragged me outside and said Dashiell, look at that playground. Where is the Japanese flag? Can you see one? Can you see one? And I said no, I can't see one. Then why did you draw a playground with a Japanese flag? And I was feeling shamed.
Speaker 1:I felt Devo did you cry.
Speaker 2:Possibly, yeah, yeah, there were incidents like that dotted throughout my whole years at primary school where I didn't follow instructions right or I wasn't attentive, or I wasn't keeping up with everything in class and, yeah, the tears did well up and that could have been one of them. I just thought it was like me Hang on.
Speaker 1:What's her name? Name and shame.
Speaker 2:Her name. She actually wasn't a bad teacher, otherwise from memory. But yes, I'm sorry to drop you into this, mrs Stamos.
Speaker 1:Stamos, mrs Stamos. That's right Any relation to John Stamos, Uncle Jesse from Full House.
Speaker 2:From Full House? Yeah, quite possibly. You never know Distant cousin.
Speaker 1:Because then she could be forgiven.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Name of the school.
Speaker 2:Okay, now we're really I can't say the name of the school. It was a big inner city state school.
Speaker 1:Inner city Adelaide. Inner city Adelaide. That's where I grew up, public school.
Speaker 2:Public school, but it was a big, big-ish public school with a playground that most definitely did not have any flags in it, let alone a flag of Japan.
Speaker 1:Dash, I think you have grounds to sue.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's what I was looking for.
Speaker 1:Bloody, horrendous. It's unacceptable. Perhaps Miss Stamos had just had a fight with her husband.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:That morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's like where's the Vegemite? And she's like in the fridge. And he's like I can't find it. And she's like open your eyes. He's like, come over here. And she's like, leave me alone, I'm trying to do a poo in peace. And he's like, please, I need the Vegemite. So she comes, she looks for the Vegemite, she sees it straight away and she's like can you just bloody open your eyes?
Speaker 2:That happens in my house all the time.
Speaker 1:So she brought that to school that day and so Projected onto me. When you committed the crime against humanity of drawing a Japanese flag on a playground. Give her the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is interesting, is it not, tammy, that something that happened 34 years ago I can still remember with great clarity, and it kind of comes up now that I've got a child that's about to start school.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's fair to say that most teachers in the 90s were psychopaths and shouldn't have been teachers?
Speaker 2:It was a different time. In answer to your question, yes, I think so. I had a number of teachers in the 90s that if I knew they were doing those things to my children I would be ropeable. Now it was just post-corporal punishment and so the line between, like physical punishment and just kind of everyday punishment given to children was very fine, but I believe things have come a long way. I'm about to find out pretty soon.
Speaker 1:Well, just from what I've seen visiting schools when I do author talks and things with my book, so that Happened, Just throw that in there again. So I get to meet a lot of different teachers and the overall feeling that I get is that most of them these days are pretty kind, pretty warm, pretty happy to be there. They're burnt out, especially the ones in public schools.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But they seem to be genuinely good people with good intentions.
Speaker 2:And I don't think there was the same appreciation for individual learning needs and preferences and ways of being in the world. So I think now that's celebrated and teachers are expected to work around the children and their needs and who they are and what they bring, and a celebration of multiple intelligences.
Speaker 1:Celebration resentment.
Speaker 2:What were you like as a primary schooler? Were you sort of cheeky and provocative and a bit silly?
Speaker 1:So when I started primary school I was very shy and anxious, but my older sister was an extrovert very outgoing, wanted to do drama classes after school and my mother thought that that might help me come out of my shell. So she sent me to drama classes and that's where I-.
Speaker 2:That's where you blossomed.
Speaker 1:That's where a monster was created.
Speaker 2:Right, we've got primary school drama classes to blame for this, do we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do. I also fell into a bit of a wrong crowd.
Speaker 2:You turned bad, you broke bad.
Speaker 1:I'm still very good friends with like a core group of people from that tiny primary school, mount Sinai College, and there were only 30 of us, oh yeah, mount Sinai alumni. In our grade, a little Jewish day school in Kingsford, I had my core group of besties and then the one with the best moral compass. She went overseas for a few years because her dad got a job in Singapore, and when she went, all hell broke loose. So then, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then another girl became Queen Bee. She listens to this show. Shout out to Talia and I'm going to ask her to sponsor this episode. Actually.
Speaker 2:Did Talia turn Queen Bee? Was she? Did she rule the roost in?
Speaker 1:She then ruled the roost and she was naughty and. I f***ing loved it. She brought out something in me that was definitely in there. I'd been capping it to get approval from Jax, who was the good girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Jax left and then Talia stepped up and I met her and we stirred up.
Speaker 2:You ran right, didn't you? Poor little Mount Sinai had never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the formidable team. So when we were in year year four, we thought it would be hilarious if we made up a rumor that there were ghosts in the school. We could bit of drama like oh our school's haunted, give us a bit of an edge. And we went around. If someone, someone, was down one of the aisles of the library, we'd pop a book off the shelf from the other side and go oh my God, it was the ghost. It sounds innocuous, except we told the infant's kids.
Speaker 2:So the ones in years K to 3, that there were ghosts in the bathroom.
Speaker 1:And then one day we got a knock on our classroom door from one of the teachers and she said that she didn't understand why, but all of a sudden her year K students were wetting their pants, oh no. And it was like this big mystery apparently. And then the penny dropped when one of the kids said I'm too scared to go to the bathroom because there are ghosts in there.
Speaker 1:Tammy so, yeah, the kids started pissing and shitting their pants. We got in trouble. So am I ashamed about the UK kids who were caught in the crossfire Because now they're carrying around this shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shat themselves.
Speaker 1:They're probably waking up at 4am and that was my fault. So, yes, I'm ashamed, but is that a f***ing great story now?
Speaker 2:It's good, it is really good. I can see that playing out just as you described that. Actually, I can see that you would. Your instinct would be to follow the rules and follow order, but when combined with a bit of a wild child, I could see that, yeah, a very different Tammy Sussman could emerge from the bottle. That makes a lot of sense. It's not that shameful. I don't think no. I think you're okay.
Speaker 1:What became of Talia? She became a bit emo in high school, but then she came good. Now she runs a successful real estate company I'm really emphasising that for her sponsorship and we're still in touch. We have a laugh. She claims she doesn't remember a lot of the stuff that we did.
Speaker 2:Of course she doesn't.
Speaker 1:I'm like don't pretend to be too cool for school, literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You do remember.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's got an image to maintain.
Speaker 1:A very glamorous image. Today's episode is brought to you by Talia Levy Realty, where luxury meets unparalleled service. As a top-tier boutique property services agency, talia Levy Realty specialise in the leasing and management of investment properties, with a focus on the higher end of the real estate market in Sydney's eastern suburbs. The team at Talia Levy Realty offer an exceptional level of expertise and personalised attention, built from years of experience and hard work across all sectors of the industry. Visit talialevyrealtycomau. We'll leave a link in the show notes. What's your most shameful high school memory? God?
Speaker 2:I had so many.
Speaker 1:What about did you ever wee or poo your pants?
Speaker 2:No, of course I didn't In high school. I didn't even do it in primary school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't in primary school either. Did you ever vandalise?
Speaker 2:Did I ever vandalise anything? Not really.
Speaker 1:Did you ever steal someone's lunch?
Speaker 2:Not really, did you ever steal someone's lunch? No, I wasn't someone that would steal things, that much I can tell you.
Speaker 2:Any shame around an outfit or a haircut. So yeah, like I recently saw my formal photo, not that long ago, my very good high school friend reposted it on Facebook and, my God, like what is it with suits of that era? Like they were just so badly cut and tailored. I guess it's a rite of passage to have really bad hair and really no sense of fashion when you're in your last few years of school.
Speaker 1:No, I can't relate. I was a style icon.
Speaker 2:Okay, you've dropped a few photos over there.
Speaker 1:Not of my late high school, when I was peaking at 17. What you just said about badly cut or styled suits they're coming back in.
Speaker 2:Okay, like in a kind of a normie way.
Speaker 1:Not in a normie way.
Speaker 2:Not in a normie way, actually in an ironic, like the cool kids are wearing them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I would definitely wasn't doing it ironically.
Speaker 1:Do you feel ashamed about the fact that you haven't come to this recording prepared with a high school memory?
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't know we needed a high school memory.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, you tell me yours, and then I'll see if I can come up with another one.
Speaker 1:I have an example of when I tried to shame Mariah College for imposing a strict rule for girls to only wear light-coloured bras underneath their white blouses. I thought it was unacceptable. I was a young, blossoming feminist and in the thick of summer it was really hot and I found wearing bras agitating. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to take a leaf out of the book created by the sisters before me. I'm going to take off that bra, I'm going to free the nip. Before that expression had even been invented. And a friend and myself we said we are going to take off our bras and we are not going to wear them in protest. And that's what we did. And no one noticed, no one gave a gave a shit. So, um, yeah, after a bit of chafing, I thought this isn't what I thought it would be. And on when that cropped up, so, um yeah, attempt at shaming the school for arbitrary rules. Yeah, failed. Yeah, were you ever rejected by any girls at school in high school?
Speaker 2:Not really at school. I did have a female friend that very kindly became my wing woman on one occasion when I told her that I had a crush on the girl that worked at the news agency that I used to frequent, on the girl that worked at the news agency that I used to frequent. It's a news agency and sort of bookstore and you know I would go there once or twice a week.
Speaker 1:Do we need to explain what a news agency is for our Gen Z?
Speaker 2:Most people know what a news agency is a place where you would buy magazines. I know it's not very fashionable now, but at the time there were a few periodicals and magazines that I liked to purchase.
Speaker 1:And the big sheets of cardboard for a project. If you didn't live close to an office work, you'd have to go to the local newsagent. Yeah, they still exist.
Speaker 2:I know there's not many of them, but they do still exist and I liked going to this one and I also liked the girl that worked there, had a bit of a crush on her. And so, my friend, she said you should ask her out. And I was very, very shy and not particularly experienced or comfortable in doing that and she said, look, if you can't do it, I'll do it for you. So she-.
Speaker 1:Good on her.
Speaker 2:So she did. She went up to the counter I wasn't within shot because, like I couldn't handle the pressure of this I went away and she explained who I was. And the girl did know who I was and she said look, would you consider going out with him on a date? And it was not positively met. I can't quite remember whether it was because she had a boyfriend already or she wasn't interested, or it's just weird because I'm in the middle of serving people at this busy news agency. But anyway, it was swiftly knocked back and then so my friend returned back to me and said look, sorry, it's not going to happen, and I couldn't go to the news agency ever again because I was so, so ashamed by my rejection.
Speaker 1:I got over it eventually the shame of rejection stings and the shame of not having a school science poster ready because you couldn't go into the news agency to buy that big sheet of cardboard that you could only get at the news agency. That would have brought you a lot of shame too. It did, it did. And was the teacher understanding? Or did she chuck a Miss?
Speaker 2:Stamos, that would have brought you a lot of shame too. It did, it did.
Speaker 1:This is and was the teacher understanding, or did she chuck her, miss Stamos, and take you outside?
Speaker 2:Look, teaching had come a long way by the early 2000s and the teachers I had at the end of my school just to bring this back full circle were lovely and very understanding and totally embraced my particularities and by the end of school there was no shaming from the teachers and you're still in touch with your Hebrew teacher.
Speaker 1:I'm still in touch with my Hebrew teacher, though I didn't take Hebrew in year 12. She was my Hebrew teacher in year seven and eight. Gil, who was our pronunciation patrol in season one, continues to be yeah, no, I still yeah, I see my high school teachers around.
Speaker 2:Of course you do See you, since I've heard you say that Some of them.
Speaker 1:Follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of them are listening to the show.
Speaker 1:Right now. Some of them are giving us five-star reviews as we speak.
Speaker 2:That would make me very happy. Tammy, we've got to go. We've got to wrap this up. We do. We're going to be back again next week for the return of A Shame to Admit in its full regular version. We've got lots coming up for season three, plenty of interesting conversations, so I can't wait to return back to our normal programming with you. Good luck with your little one and with their transition to school. Do you call it prep or kindy in New South Wales?
Speaker 1:Kindy, kindy. What do you call it in Melbourne? Prep, you call it prep which makes more sense. Good luck with you and good luck with any of our listeners who have kids starting school. And if you don't have kids starting school but you still wake up at 4.30 in the morning with a memory, I'd love to hear about it. Please get in touch, take care of yourselves and we'll see you soon. You've been listening to Summer Shames, the Schvitzisch Fester podcast of A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 2:Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by me, dash Lawrence and Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1:These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2:If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe the sunscreen off your hands and leave a review.
Speaker 1:Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash, because we forgot that some of our listeners live overseas and it's not summer there. Remove your mittens and give us some stars. We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2:As always. Thanks for the support and we look forward to Kitzel your ears next week.
Speaker 1:You chose Yiddish. That's very racist. What about Kosses in Ladino? Or Dig Dug in Hebrew? Tickle, give your ears a little tickle. Or Zug Zug.
Speaker 2:I only know Kitzel. I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you.