Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Episode #36 Melbourne International Comedy Festival spotlight, with Rapha Manajem
Tami sits down with Mizrahi comedian Rapha Manajem to talk about his upcoming Melbourne International Comedy Festival show, The Salmon Was Good. Rapha who proudly claims a Mizrahi/Ashkenazi – and potentially Sri Lankan Jewish – heritage dives into the chaos of identity, family and his most memorable experience as a Jewish youth movement leader.
As one of many Aussie-Jewish comedians lighting up MICF this year (alongside Jude Perl, Josh Glanc, and Jacob Sacher), Rapha gives us a taste of what to expect from his show. Did we mention he’s Mizrahi?
Articles relevant to this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/five-jewish-laughs-at-melbournes-comedy-festival
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/should-mum-or-dad-have-the-safe-sex-chat
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Are you interested in issues affecting Jews in Australia, the Middle East and the world at large, but struggling to keep up with the news cycle? If you answered yes, then you've come to the right place.
Speaker 2:I'm Nash Lawrence and in this podcast series, your third cousin, tammy Sussman, and I call on experts and each other to address all the ignorant questions that you might be too ashamed to ask.
Speaker 1:Join us as we have a go at cutting through some seriously chewy and dewy topics.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast. Ash, shame to admit.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone, I'm Tammy.
Speaker 2:And I'm Dash.
Speaker 1:Dash tell everyone what you do at the Jewish Independent.
Speaker 2:I'm Executive Director. What do you do at the Jewish Independent Tammy Sussman?
Speaker 1:I make this podcast, I write articles. I am the Jewish Independent's new agony aunt or cousin for their monthly sex and relationships column Sex and the Shtetl. But you know, if I had a magic wand, I would be the Jewish Independent's full-time court jester. Dash, do you know that court jesters were proper jobs in medieval and Renaissance courts?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do yeah.
Speaker 3:I've been doing a bit of-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of reading up on court jesters recently.
Speaker 1:Why is that?
Speaker 2:Well, my son has quite a fascination with different historical civilizations and he's aware that, yes, court jesters were the royal family's form of entertainment. As long as we have evolved to have forms of humour, we've looked to other human beings to bring us some positivity and light during times of struggle or war, as was the case with court jesters during the earlier times. You know, help the king to relieve the king of the stresses of dealing with whatever troubles or conflicts.
Speaker 1:Dash, how old is your son?
Speaker 2:He is five and a half.
Speaker 1:Five and a half, and he's taken an interest in historical civilizations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, renaissance medieval Egyptian.
Speaker 1:Chip off the old block. He wants to go much further back than even I can go. Okay, yeah, does your son know whether women were also allowed to be court jesters, or was it just a male occupation? Because I'm pretty sure yeah I was born in the wrong point in history. If I was around in medieval and renaissance times, I could have been a full-time court jester and entertainer for royalty and nobility. I could have used comedy, music, storytelling. I think they also had to use acrobatics.
Speaker 1:That's not my strong suit and I think there's a lot of noble characters at the Jewish Independent and I think that the Jewish Independent would benefit greatly from having an in-house jester. So you're executive director and I'm still unsure as to what that role entails. I have a feeling it's got to do with the money. Like you figure out where it's allocated. Is that your job? That's one of the jobs yep, okay, so you're sure there's no room for movement.
Speaker 2:For the TGI court, jester, yeah, look, it wasn't a position that was on the strategic plan for the next three years. But now that you're sort of part of the organisation and we see you every week and I do agree, you do provide some value in the way of comedy and entertainment will you bring the laughs?
Speaker 1:That sounds to me like you're going to think about it. I'm considering it, Okay. So the reason why jesters are on my mind, Dash, is because the Melbourne International Comedy Festival is upon us.
Speaker 2:I've already got my tickets. I'm going to a few shows.
Speaker 1:How do you choose which shows you're going to go to?
Speaker 2:It's a very good question. You normally go on referral recommendation from a friend or someone that you trust yeah but this year it's it's a bit of potluck.
Speaker 2:I've just found a few shows that I like the look of and then watched some youtube clips. And yeah, like I've got a friend who always goes to the comedy festival and he's got quite a high bar for comedy or at least he'd like to think and he's also a listener to this show, and I shared with him a few of the shows I wanted to see and he was like, nah, not my thing. And then so I shared a couple more and I said, what about these? And he was like, yep, lock it in, I like it.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's one strategy.
Speaker 2:What do you do?
Speaker 1:Well, another technique that you could use is my mother's strategy. And it's actually a technique or a tactic used by a lot of Jewish boomers particularly. You could categorise shows into Jewish or not Jewish.
Speaker 2:Okay, right, only interested in seeing the Jewish performers.
Speaker 1:Correct. Use a bit of positive discrimination.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you say I'm going to support the Jewish comedians. Love it At the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.
Speaker 2:Well, we've got all of three or four in this year's festival.
Speaker 1:No, there's more.
Speaker 2:Oh is there, Sorry I made a list. You made a list.
Speaker 1:Jews don't really like being on a list.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And not all of these people have given me their consent. They might not even want to be on the Jewish comedian list, but their consent. They might not even want to be on the Jewish comedian list, but you know what?
Speaker 2:Fuck it.
Speaker 1:I'm doing them a favour. Sorry, John Safran. Oh, I didn't put John Safran on the list. Nah, his show's already sold out. I saw a video from him last night that apparently he committed to a show before he knew that it was on a major Jewish festival. Yeah, yeah, I saw that say to say tonight passover, so he's had to book another one. No, ruby wax is in town with her show.
Speaker 1:I'm not as well as I thought I was. Wow, josh glance, who we've had on the show, will be performing family man ata alumni robin reynolds, absolute darling ATA alumni Robin Reynolds Absolute Darling.
Speaker 1:What Doesn't Kill you is the name of her show. Jess Fook Sex Jokes for Women. And Rafa Manajem the Salmon Was Good, which is playing at Bar 1806 from the 9th to the 20th of April. Dash, I had a bit of a chat with Rafa. Now I know I originally pitched it to you as an interview, but I think what it became was like part interview, part fever dream. I just want to put that out there.
Speaker 2:Fever dream with Rafa Great. I'm sorry I couldn't have been a part of it. I don't know how much value I could have added to that conversation.
Speaker 1:I think yesterday in particular you could have added quite a bit of value, because Rafa and I were all over the place.
Speaker 3:Oh were you.
Speaker 1:I was in charge of getting things back on track, back into some kind of linear narrative. Yeah, I did my best. Yeah, this chat slash interview sometimes he interviewed me slash fever dream. I think it'll be a nice break from the pretty shit news cycle.
Speaker 2:So have you given a bio on Rafa?
Speaker 1:His was an active bio. I read it with him so I'm not even going to give it to you now. It's in the interview.
Speaker 2:Love it. I want to hear more, so let's listen to this conversation between Tammy and Rafa Manajem.
Speaker 1:Rafa Manajem, thank you so much for joining us on A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, huge fan of the show.
Speaker 1:No, you're not yeah.
Speaker 3:Ask me what my favourite episode is.
Speaker 1:What's your favourite episode?
Speaker 3:All of them. I love them all equally, can't separate them. They were fantastic. How long have you been stood up by Dash?
Speaker 1:Does that disappoint you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought you got the whole one-two punch thing between the two of you.
Speaker 1:I know You're just stuck with me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well.
Speaker 1:Can you please write a complaint and send it to the Jewish Independent, because so far all the complaints we get are about me and I'd really like to even the playing field.
Speaker 3:What complaints do you get? You're so lovely.
Speaker 1:Thank you for saying that, but there was an episode where we interviewed Alex Rivchin and his wife, vicky Rivchin, and the whole premise of that interview was that it was going to be a lighthearted one. The community needed a bit of light, and so I asked him a lot of personal questions. I asked him about his skincare regime as a you know, nod to the fact that women often get asked those questions. I wanted to flip the script.
Speaker 3:I thought it was a nod to his unbelievable face. The first time I met him, I was like who designed you, da Vinci? You look like your car from Marvel and he's like I'm Ukrainian. And I'm like who designed you, da Vinci? You look like your car from Marvel and he's like I'm Ukrainian. I'm like you're Ukrainian.
Speaker 1:What the.
Speaker 3:I just got lost in his eyes.
Speaker 1:I asked his wife what it was like for her to have her husband be thrust into the spotlight on Mardi Gras and spontaneously become a gay Jewish icon. I asked her if that was on her bingo card for 2024. And so I feel that these were all really valid, pressing questions and some listeners felt that I derailed that interview and did not give enough weight. At least you know people are listening. That's amazing Look.
Speaker 3:At least you know people are listening. That's amazing. Look, if you have a Jewish based podcast and you are not getting complaints, are you even working? What are you doing? Seinfeld has this whole bit about. You know his favorite activity is complaining. You know he doesn't like any activity. What he likes is discussing the activity after. I think it's very much a part of our culture as well. And hey, at least they're complaining about something that isn't harrowing for 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:You're doing a great service. Keep doing that. Thank you, Rafa, so much. Usually what I would do in an interview situation like this is I would tell you that Dash and I had already gone through your bio beforehand. But when you sent me your bio, Rafa, I felt like it was something that needed a little bit of unpacking, which is a term I've also had a complaint about. They just say explain, like stop being so American. So I felt like your bio was more of an activity I felt. So let's go through this together.
Speaker 1:Rafa Manajem is a Jewish comic and writer from Melbourne. Rafa's creative writing methods are derived from an ancient Tibetan tradition. Every morning at 4am, he drives to the Dandenong Ranges to meditate and write, citing that his best work comes from being amongst nature. It's not so much the rustle of trees or the flow of the streams, it's more that it's an excellent place to find leeches, and if he loses enough blood he gets lightheaded. And it's only in that anemic state of consciousness that his spiritual guide, Tom Gleeson, reveals himself himself, often in a straight jacket, but never in shoes. We have some international listeners, Rafa. Are you able to tell them who Tom Gleeson is and how important he is to Australians?
Speaker 3:Tom Gleeson is a successful Australian comedian and he has sort of a hostile engagement quiz show. He's just a, I think, a very Australian classic comic who's won some TV awards and also my spiritual guide on these journeys.
Speaker 1:In 2016, Rafa famously led the corporate campaign for the right to wear sandals in office environments, accusing the human resource industrial complex of being anti-shu and Eurocentric. When I read that, I thought it's plausible.
Speaker 3:Well, this is the fantastic thing about language and having an understanding of, in particular, political and ideological language and how it's used. The great blessing of doing an arts degree is that what it trains you to do is basically make an intellectual argument about the most absurd things, if you want.
Speaker 1:Rafi studied international relations at the University of Queensland. You graduated with a minor in peace studies and a major in global conflict. Major in global conflict. Your professors described you as informed and possibly Sri Lankan. Anything more to say on that? He's shaking his head. He's forgotten. This is not a visual medium. Okay, I'll move on then. In 2023, rafa received a runner-up title for the National Raw Comedy Competition which aired on SBS. I've seen it, but there were two others awarded the same title, so while he might tell people he came second, he also came fourth. In any case, he lost. Do you identify as a loser or a winner?
Speaker 3:more broadly, I think I'm sort of off the spectrum. I'm sort of in the corner doing my own thing, maybe.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:That's a hard question, because if I say loser, it's like, okay, this guy's got. If I say winner, it's like, oh, this guy's a bit up himself. So it's a real trap question. Do you identify as a winner or a loser, tammy?
Speaker 1:Well done. That was really clever. To flip it back onto me, I feel like with literal competitions I'm a winner. I won a Mickey Mouse backpack in primary school in the raffle in year six. Yeah, I won tickets to Robbie Williams.
Speaker 3:When, what era?
Speaker 1:I was 16. Robbie Williams when what era? I was 16. I went with a boyfriend and he had diarrhea and I spent most of the concert.
Speaker 3:Well, that must have been some exciting concert.
Speaker 1:Waiting outside yes, the cubicles, so I missed most of the concert.
Speaker 3:Did you stay with him after the diary?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that made me love him even more.
Speaker 3:This is such a Jewish love story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I won a night stay at the Sofitel Hotel with buffet breakfast.
Speaker 3:Okay With buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:How do you win all this stuff? You just want to enter competitions. Sorry, you said want to enter competitions.
Speaker 1:Sorry, you said with the buffet breakfast. If there's no buffet breakfast, then what is the fucking point? It's all about the buffet breakfast.
Speaker 3:No, I'm with you. Hey, there's not a hill I'm going to die on. How are you winning all this stuff? What's going on here?
Speaker 1:It's just like raffles and I'm not going out of my way to enter competitions this is why people think we control everything.
Speaker 3:This is it's implausible so I shouldn't admit it. Yeah, in the literal sense of the national world competition. I I lost, but but this thing, I was in it, right, so you had to win five times to get to that point and um, I also think there's something surreal about having a competition about comedy, because it's a very subjective thing and it's a absurd reality to find yourself in a position in front of a thousand people cracking jokes and making people laugh and that feels very rewarding.
Speaker 1:Good, that was a very measured response.
Speaker 3:Who won that year? Wonderful comedian Henry Yan, and he's so funny and so sweet. And the next year me and William Wang as well another Victorian comic. We all got to do the Comedy Festival's Comedy Zone selection.
Speaker 1:That was next in your bio.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So we spent a month together and just bonding and it was such a wonderful time.
Speaker 1:Oh, excellent. You jumped the gun In 2024,. You were selected for the prestigious Comedy Zone Melbourne International Comedy Festival show and the festival's road show in the Northern Territory. What was the hotel like there?
Speaker 3:Really nice. Fly us and that was the best, I think, experience I've had as a comic. You're playing the big theatres. The one in Alice Spring is amazing and the Darwin Theatre as well is huge and they're packed and it was the first time I'm touring with fully professional comedians and the type of, I guess, bullying that goes on. It's michelin star level, you know, because it was friendly, whatever, but I'm, I'm also. I love to agitate. You can just imagine being in a table around a bunch of comics, everyone just sort of letting off steam.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, you haven't mentioned the buffet breakfast.
Speaker 3:No buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1:So what did you do for breakfast?
Speaker 3:I barely remember breakfast. That's how much of a good time it was.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'd be asking for my money back In 2025, that's this year you're going to debut your first hour. Any other descriptors of your new show?
Speaker 3:it's kind of about at least the start of the frame is about my relationship with my grandpa, who had this amazing life and he was german, and then he moved to spain and he was German, and then he moved to Spain and he was selling, you know, these brushes that have detergent in them yes yeah, that was like the iPhone of the 1930s or whatever.
Speaker 3:So so he starts selling them and he thought he's in Spain. And then the civil war breaks out and, uh, his friend and business partner gets killed and he goes to move back but his dad's like, well, I wouldn't come to Germany. He goes to Manchester and they put him in termit gap and then basically say, well, you're an enemy alien. And he says, yeah, well, you know a bit bit tough in germany at the moment. And they say, okay, well, you can join the army, and you know me. In turn, he goes back, spends his 20s sort of fighting in world war ii.
Speaker 3:You know, I had this reflection, that sort of, at my age. He had fought in World War II and had an international business and started a family and made me reflect that. You know well, maybe my screen time is too high and it's sort of reflection on that, but he was really funny, but he wasn't there, wasn't a wisdom to him. The closest thing you'd get to advice from him is a food recommendation. If you asked him what the meaning of life is, he'd say lunch. That was his.
Speaker 3:He was razor focused on that type of stuff and I remember asking him when I was I don't know he was like 90 or something and I was asking him about what it was like fighting in World War II and he said, oh, we had a good chef.
Speaker 3:And then I think he would tell by my silence I was looking for more detail. So he added the salmon was good and that was a reflection on the worst war in human history to this day. But as I got older you start to realize these sort of wonderful, almost comical, but these old, special, sweet people. They went through really difficult things and then I did youth leading for a while and had a younger sister and you start realizing how difficult it is to share all these horrible things with these people, because you know you're going to, they are going to carry the pain. I just think my grandpa was an incredible person who did incredible things and was completely down to earth and he was also super funny. So I guess him and his life take a frame to it. But it's largely not a sad story, it's funny.
Speaker 1:And the name of the show is the Salmon Was Good. Because it's just me interviewing you. I have an imaginary dash on my shoulder and he is the historian. He will be cross with me if I don't ask you a little bit about your upbringing. Some biographical details, if that's okay with you, of course, of course. So what's your background, Rafa?
Speaker 3:So my mum is German Jewish, my dad is Yemeni, Israeli, which makes me Sri Lankan. I guess I don't know why People keep asking me if I'm Sri Lankan. Not many people can be wrong Democratically I am Sri Lankan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, date of birth you want the graphic detail. So I was born in melbourne. Then when I was about eight years old, my parents told us we were going to like dream world or whatever. And they're just packing away the table and stuff in a van and we're like what do you need that for? And they're like shut up, get in the car and then we get there and the understanding is we'll be there for a year, and then a year passes and they're like we live here now.
Speaker 1:You live in Queensland.
Speaker 3:You live in Queensland, so I spent most of my childhood and teenage years, all of them actually in Brisbane. Okay yeah, you look shocked.
Speaker 1:I look shocked. It's because you're a comedian.
Speaker 3:I don't actually know whether that's true, so we thought we were going for a year, okay. That was basically the negotiation.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:But me and my brother were just little shits, so I fully understand why they needed to manipulate us, but I think that's what you've got to do. You have kids, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:At some point. It's this idea that you can be completely reasonable with these things that don't have fully functioning prefrontal lobes.
Speaker 1:You respect your parents' decision now.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I think I definitely had more vitamin D because of it. Yeah, I think that the older you get and when you become the same age as your parents when they had you, you think I'm a moron. I respect that they had the bravery to go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so why did they move?
Speaker 3:The weather was a big thing. I think also the market was growing for building my dad's in marble, so I've got red sea stone for them and my dad's. Actually really incredible background with that. He went to Oman and a lot of these Gulf countries really early on and you know, as a Yemeni sort of Jew that's a bit of high risk but he started an import-export business sort of off that and I really admire him. You know he had to leave school at like 16. His dad died when he was young and he came here and you know English isn't great and me and my brother just like mainly made fun of his accent and because it's funny, you know he'd say obtus and say ting and that was you know, but you're ting instead of what.
Speaker 3:Thing yeah, yeah, and so I don't speak another language and he came and he did all this stuff and I think you realize how intense and tough that is as a kid and you worked as as a tyler 50 hours a week or whatever, and you'd come home and we'd just be like your voice is funny and so I get you know.
Speaker 3:I remember one time me and my brother went up to him and we said, oh, if there's a fire in the house and you could only save one of us, which one of us would you save? And without skipping a beat he said your sister. It was intense moving to Brisbane, I think, because it's a bit of a different world. We went to a very, very Anglo school and I think we kind of stood out, me and my brother a bit, and also no one played AFL and yeah. So we moved to Brisbane. Don't grow up particularly in the Jewish community there isn't really one. We go to summer camp and then Sunday school as well.
Speaker 1:So that's Jewish classes.
Speaker 3:Yes, so Sunday school. I was like the only person to ever be kicked out of Sunday school apart from my brother, I think and he got kicked out for, like, getting in a fight with another kid, and I got kicked out for being the other kid. We had this amazing bar mitzvah teacher, neville. He was really good and made that part fun. But then he moved to Melbourne.
Speaker 3:Neville Stern shout out you're 13, you're awkward braces and you just feel uncomfortable in your skin. You're not a child anymore, but you sort of look quite young. You're certainly not an adult and I'm in Brisbane, which is less multicultural, although it's grown significantly since I moved there. And yeah, I just remember doing my bar mitzvah and my mom thought it would be a great idea to invite all my friends who weren't Jewish my footy team, you know the girl who I have a crush on and there I am just screaming in this voodoo language at them for an hour with my voice breaking, and they're all like what the fuck is this? And then we had some bagels. That was it.
Speaker 3:And so over summer you'll go to camp or you'll go to Maccabi and everyone's Jewish, and this isn't like a weird thing, this is just a thing that everyone is and it's okay, you don't have to feel weird about it and everyone has these like funny stories about diarrhea and it's, I think, really meaningful, but it doesn't define you exactly, although it is interesting how people who fully grew up in the Jewish community a lot of them stay, but a lot of them break out and push it away and they don't feel the same sense that I think a lot of us who grew up as it was this kind of side thing that we engaged in as it enriched our life.
Speaker 3:Whereas I think for some people it became like a roof and a ceiling over what they could experience.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they needed a detox after school, yeah, yeah. So you finished high school and you said that you became involved in a Jewish youth movement and in leadership. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I just sort of did some of that stuff and I think that just teaches you responsibility and I think also that I was not typical of, I think, a lot of my Jewish friends, in that I went to a state school. A lot of my friends. Their schools had a swimming pool and a lounge. My school had safe needle disposals and occasional race wars.
Speaker 3:It was a very different experience and I was always bouncing off the walls in class. I did okay in some subjects but I certainly wasn't excelling. And when you do some of the informal education stuff, you kind of get to teach how you, I guess, like to learn, fun and games and whatever. That was really rewarding. I think it gave you a sense of responsibility as well at quite a young age. And you're managing budgets, you're sort of dealing with social issues and Jewish parents and their anxieties and there's one year where a campsite almost burnt down. It was nuts. Basically, we see this fire coming and we get all the kids into this, the head of the main room, and we pull down all the blinds so they can't see and the idea is to contain the panic right yes it's blazing, whatever, and then you know a kid starts freaking out.
Speaker 3:We stick them in a little room. You know smoke's like peering into this box and this all stuff. It's like this is not good. We've stuck a bunch of jewish kids in a room and there's smoke coming anyway. So I remember walking outside and just seeing steven toffler who, uh, if you know him, but lovely guy, and he's just like walking in a circle, going, like I can't believe my friends are out at a doof and this is what I chose, you're already at that age like I can't believe this is what I'm doing with my summertime after uni, whatever. And he's just like all these kids are gonna die. And oh god, the complaints I'm gonna get from the parents.
Speaker 3:Helicopters are going over bursting water, firefighters, this whole thing. Anyway, they contain the blaze. We get the kids out, finally, and you just look around and there's just barren wasteland, it's everywhere. But the actual little campsite. We get everyone into sort of the main kitchen hall room, whatever, where we eat, and we let them know blah, blah, blah is contained. For now you guys don't have to worry and thank you for being in a great and brave and whatever. And let's give a round of applause for the fire chief who came and he's gonna say a few words. And then fire chief comes, he's got his helmet and he goes. Yeah, thought we almost lost it there. You almost died today. And the kids just start screaming and we're like what the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 2:what are?
Speaker 3:you doing, and then anyway, we had to get in psychologists and stuff. Um, anyway, that is a wild story, that is amazing yeah, so you know you're 20 and sort of dealing with this stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, at what point did you realise that a minor in peace studies and a major in global conflict was the course for you?
Speaker 3:Well, I actually started in arts commerce because a guy who was a great mentor of mine, Asher Rubenstein, who was sort of a youth leader, he studied that. So I figured that's just what I'll study and I was enjoying economics but the math got to a point where it was mainly letters. So I started focusing more on arts and then I think that the conflict and conflict has always sort of weighed heavy on my mind and had this deep hope that maybe someone had the answers of a pathway out of just and the suffering. And so I took an international relations course and I had this amazing lecturer. He was this French guy and he was half Jewish and I think on his mom's side lost some people during the occupation of France and he would stand on his desk and he would yell and he was just larger than life and he was a huge funneling for people to come in and there was one of his sort of key aides and tutors and he'd take so much as a guy called Chris Adams and another guy called Daryl Maroney and the tutes were big classes and they would run sort of scenarios. And this is happening and this is happening. How do you solve it? A lot of what you pay for in uni feels and regurgitated and overpriced and whatever. These guys were amazing. They were deeply engaging, thoughtful. You really enjoyed reading and it was competitive and you could act in bad faith in these scenarios and see everything fall apart very much like a lot of the way international organizations or supernatural organizations function. And so I really started studying that and that just became my focus and I did a double major in it and I I really started studying that and that just became my focus and I did a double major in it, and I think I only graduated because of wonderful people like Chris Adams, who took an interest and pushed me.
Speaker 3:There was also a German lecturer there, Sebastian. I forget his last name and I forget the name of the French lecturer, but they co-wrote a piece about how Germany and France became such great allies and I think we miss this. Historically, they massacred each other in the millions. They had a soft sort of border, so they were constantly invading each other and this happened over hundreds and hundreds of years and now they are the two best powerful friends in the world and they wrote about how does this happen in a generation right From World War II to 70s, 80s, whatever, they're really close, certainly West Germany, and then, you know, throughout the 90s, whatever, but it's basically one generation that you can go to killing each other en masse to closeness and they found that economic engagement and ties, educational ties and arts and cultural exchanges had this fundamental effect and, fundamentally, learning about each other's histories and versions of history and you know it makes you reflect on how much conflict there is. And even Scotland and England right, these are cultures who hated each other, scouse people, All throughout the UK you'll find little divisions that aren't violent anymore, maybe outside certain football games, but, like you know, not really consistently violent in conflict.
Speaker 3:And I think that vision gave me some hope and some reflection and I think about and maybe this is just hopeful, but I think about if you know, Israel can forgive Germany, maybe we can forgive Palestinians and just maybe one day they can forgive us. And it seems impossible and improbable, but history would tell us. This happens all the time and I feel this hope. It's sometimes it. I think people can look at it and think, oh, that's not yours, your forgiveness to give and whatever and how. I'm not saying I have any good reason, right, other than I don't like seeing people suffer. I don't want my family to be, I don't want them to be put to a position where they have to hurt others. And you know, we live in Australia. We're so blessed and fortunate that this reality is not, hopefully at least, going forward every day for us. So that was, I guess, my journey in international relations. I'm sorry, there should be some jokes in there.
Speaker 1:I wasn't asking you for a joke. I'm aware, and our audience is aware, that comedians are people too and that you know we're not always funny that sometimes we can be smart and have ideas about how to solve the problems of the world. I'm curious to know how you went from that to comedy.
Speaker 3:I was with my friend Dean Sher and sometime contributed to TGI, and we were at a bar outside St Kilda and I was. We had one or two chardonnays that night and there was a comedy going on and someone didn't rock up and the MC said oh well, if anyone's got some jokes, I guess we've got a slot now. And then he went off and I went and spoke to him. I said I've written a few jokes and he said I was joking, you, idiot, I'm not going to put a random on stage. And then the person who was meant to go up in front of the headliner just bombed so bad. And he came up to me and he said okay, well, you can't be worse than this. Tell me a joke. And I told him a joke and I'd written them on these little cards I took from the bar.
Speaker 1:Some little coasters.
Speaker 3:And so I got up there again a couple more Chardonnays deep and I just went one by one, by jokes I'd written and would throw them and it went really well. I think I've always loved comedy and writing and storytelling and process to do that that way.
Speaker 1:What would you consider yourself to be an expert in?
Speaker 3:I don't think I'm an expert in anything. I think that I spend my time trying to figure it out and I think that's what can keep you learning. And also funny is a sense of humility around it. I think maybe you become an expert in sensing someone's pain inside. Particularly lately you see or hear someone's Jewish or whatever and there's just like a look in their eyes, Like there's just a when are we just going to feel normal? And I think I've become attuned to sort of sensing discomfort in people, which is helpful when you're a comedian because you're trying to sense an audience's comfort with a subject.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you're just ashamed to admit?
Speaker 3:in general, Okay, when I text you, I'm on my way. I'm not on my way. I'll be on my way in 15 minutes. Okay, when I find my keys? Yeah.
Speaker 1:The name of your show again for our listeners, is the show's called the Salmon Was Good.
Speaker 3:It's playing from the 9th to the 20th of April at 6.15pm at Bar 1806 in Melbourne City.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on. A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3:Hey, thanks so much for having me, and to TJR and all the wonderful work you do.
Speaker 1:That was Rafa Manajem, who'll be at Bar 1806 in Melbourne from the 9th to the 20th of April as part of Melbourne International Comedy Festival. We'll leave a link in the show notes.
Speaker 2:His show is called the Salmon Was Good.
Speaker 1:And you've been listening to. A Shame to Admit with me Tammy Sussman and executive director of the Jewish Independent, dr Darshal Lawrence.
Speaker 2:This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with theme music by Donovan Jenks.
Speaker 1:If you like the podcast, leave a positive review, tell your people or encourage your third cousin's cousin to advertise on the show.
Speaker 2:Tell us what you're ashamed to admit via the contact form on the Jewish Independent website or by emailing ashamed at the jewishindependentcomau.
Speaker 1:As always, thanks for your support and look out for us next week.