Ashamed to Admit

Reclaiming Zionism Through Democratic Action, with Romy Zyngier

• The Jewish Independent

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What does it mean to be a Zionist in 2025? Can diaspora Jews shape Israel's future from afar? Tami and Dash caught up with Romy Zyngier, research scientist, community builder, and head of one of the slates contesting Australian elections at this year's World Zionist Congress.

Learn more: https://thejewishindependent.com.au/once-in-a-generation-chance-to-shape-global-jewish-life 

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Speaker 1:

Are you interested in nuanced Jewish perspectives on Zionism today, and not what others think Jews should believe, but what thoughtful Jews are actually grappling with? If you answered yes, then you've come to the right place.

Speaker 2:

I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent and in this episode, which is part two of our Zionism series, we'll be diving into this hot topic by speaking with research scientist, creative communicator and community builder Romy Zinger, who is head of the Hatikva Australia slate in the World Zionist Congress elections happening right now in Australia.

Speaker 1:

Who knows if she'll be ashamed to admit anything. It's season three of this TJI podcast and we seem to be dropping our shame, some of us more than others. Tammy, join us as we have a go at cutting through this exceptionally chewy and dewy topic.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to this week's episode of A Shame to Admit. Hello and welcome to A Shame to Admit. I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent, speaking to you from the great city of Adelaide.

Speaker 1:

And I'm Tammy Sussman from the aesthetically superior city of Sydney, Australia.

Speaker 2:

I beg to differ. I think that Adelaide can definitely go toe-to-toe with Sydney.

Speaker 1:

You reckon oh yeah, Is there a harbour.

Speaker 2:

Does every city need a harbour?

Speaker 1:

Not necessarily.

Speaker 2:

Magnificent beaches, beautiful Adelaide hills, wineries to the north, wineries to the south. The whole city is encased with parklands. Tammy.

Speaker 1:

All right, and you've got the churches, of course, which we don't have.

Speaker 2:

Got the churches, yeah, the churches.

Speaker 1:

You could say that they are aesthetically superior.

Speaker 2:

Well, the beautiful feature of Adelaide is its churches, festival city, wonderful place, so much so that I choose to live in Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

I stand by what I said and I apologise to the 1% of our listeners who are tuning in from Adelaide in South Australia. Dash, I've had a look at the map of where people are listening from Quite diverse, quite surprising. Oh yeah, yep, we have people listening from Douglas in the Isle of man. I had to Google where that was. Do you know where Douglas is?

Speaker 2:

I do, and believe it or not, I actually know an Australian Jew living in Douglas, so I don't know whether he's our one and only listener, but I don't think it's exactly a thriving Jewish community in the Isle of man.

Speaker 1:

Okay, do you want to give his first name a shout out, in case it is him?

Speaker 2:

Michael, I hope life is going well for you there in very rainy, very overcast. Douglas, you know they're called Manx in the Isle of man.

Speaker 1:

I didn't know that, but obviously you know that You're our Triv man. We have some listeners in Kaluakona in Hawaii. Not sure whether they're regular listeners or whether they're just Jewish Americans having their holiday in Hawaii, but hello to you over there.

Speaker 2:

Aloha to you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for that correction. Okay, where is?

Speaker 2:

Pedrugia, alicante. Alicante is a city in Spain from memory, so I think that's what you're referring to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're right. It's a charming town nestled in the Marina Alta region of Alicante in Spain.

Speaker 2:

I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly. Hola to our amigos in.

Speaker 1:

Alicante. Como estas? I guess, if you're in Spain, much better.

Speaker 2:

I love that. You did very well and of course, we do have listeners in Japan. Konnichiwa to our friends in Tokyo and Kyoto.

Speaker 1:

And in Liverpool, in New South Wales.

Speaker 2:

Oh right, I was about to say Liverpool Scouse.

Speaker 1:

Not bad accent, actually. Dash well done.

Speaker 2:

Burnley up north in Burnley We've got a listener in Burnley.

Speaker 1:

How long have you been practicing that one?

Speaker 2:

Had I been given some forewarning about this segment, I probably would have prepared a whole raft of them, but I can't really do them on the fly. Are you an accents man? I'm more an impersonator. I didn't know that. Yeah, I do a great impersonation of you.

Speaker 1:

Go on.

Speaker 2:

No, the thing is about an impersonation is. You generally can't do it in front of the person. You get sort of inhibited and you need to be in the zone. You can't be riffing off the person that you're impersonating it just doesn't work.

Speaker 1:

So what I'm hearing is, for the first time, that you have been impersonating me behind my back. Who's your audience? Whoever will listen, it's your children. Shall we get on with the show.

Speaker 2:

So the reason, tammy, that we are taking a whiff around the globe is that right now, we are amidst a global election. Jewish diasporas around the world are casting their vote for who they would like to represent them at the World Zionist Congress. As I mentioned at the top of the episode, this is the second part in our conversation about Zionism. If you didn't hear last week's conversation with Adam Kirsch, I strongly recommend you do, because Adam put forward the argument that now is the time for Jewish people to reclaim the word Zionism. In this week's conversation, we're taking a look at what is the application of Zionism, because this word is nearly 150 years old, dates back into the 1800s, its understanding is varied and in the last few years it's been very much sullied and very much lost and misunderstood. So what does it actually mean to be a Zionist today and to apply that word as well? Our guest today is someone who is actually heading a slate in the Australian part of these elections for what's called Hatikva, australia.

Speaker 1:

And if you're like me and you're like what is a slate, beyond a type of tile, dash.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, look, a slate is not a term I would have usually used, but they all seem to be talking about the slates. So essentially, we are talking about a grouping of candidates that are standing for election in the World's Artist Congress. Hatikva, australia, has been put together in the leading to this election, but they're not the only ones.

Speaker 1:

That's right. There are five right.

Speaker 2:

There are five. There are five Mizrahi Australia, australian Friends of Likud, eretz, hakarosh and Aza Mazorti are the other four tickets in addition to Hatikva Australia. You can read more about them, their policies, what they stand for, who's representing them, on the Jewish Independent website, where we've got coverage, and we'll have coverage after the election as well, to see where the votes fell. I just want you to know that we're not advocating for any one particular slate here, unashamed to admit. Really, what we wanted to do today in the conversation is to understand from one candidate why they're participating, and today's guest is a very articulate voice, someone that's grown up in the Australian Jewish community and, in particular, has a very active role in climate research and advocacy.

Speaker 1:

So, without any further ado, here is our interview with Head of Hatikva Australia, romy Zinger. Romy Zinger, thanks so much for joining us on A Shame to Admit. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

I'm excited to be here. Romy, as our listeners have just heard, you've had a career working at the intersection of science, sustainability and public policy at the intersection of science, sustainability and public policy. I'd like to hear a little bit about your upbringing and your formative experiences that led you into this world.

Speaker 3:

Oh Dash, getting straight in there with the childhood. So I guess fighting for what's just and fair has been instilled within me from the very beginning. I grew up in a household of activists social activists, environmental activists, human rights advocates and I was raised in a home where we were taught to understand the difference between equity and equality, where political debate was the norm at the dinner table, so it was a really sort of central feature in our family life. My parents took me to rallies as a young kid as well, fighting for what's right, particularly refugees, descendants from Holocaust survivors. So that's been a really important feature in our life. Something that my bubahana which means grandma in Yiddish for other people always said to me was never look up to see what you don't have, but look to see how you can help and where you can help, and that's something that's really sort of been central in the way that I've viewed the world.

Speaker 1:

Romy these days. Your work with soil, food systems and climate resilience touches on deep issues of survival and justice. I'm curious to know do you see that as a form of tikkun olam, and maybe we can have a quick explainer of what that is for our non-Jewish listeners.

Speaker 3:

Tikkun Olam is a Hebrew phrase meaning repairing the world or healing the world, and it reflects core Jewish values the moral responsibility to make the world more just, compassionate and whole, and there's a lot of literature that you can read about it and it's something really I encourage you to explore a bit more broadly at home if you have the time.

Speaker 2:

Tikkun olam is a phrase that's held up particularly in certain circles within the Jewish community. You mentioned before that you came from an activist family and a very politically aware and attuned family, and one that had an environmental consciousness. Was tikkun olam even discussed around the family?

Speaker 3:

It wasn't directly discussed as a concept, but our entire life revolved around it and that's really led me to, I suppose, my life's work and my career so far being actually driven by that concept of Tikkun Olam. I just want to leave the world a little bit better than how I found it.

Speaker 2:

So many, if not most, australian Jews who end up working in justice, be it in social justice or environmental justice or even in the law itself, have had their political awakening formed through Zionist youth movements. Was that the case for you?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I am actually third generation Hashem HaTzir, which is a Zionist youth movement and it's straight out of Poland. Originally. They trained young adults in Poland to be ready to move to Israel, make Aliyah and to build the Kibbutzim. So that's something that you know is all through my blood, something that's so deeply important to me our Zionist youth movements.

Speaker 2:

Hashi.

Speaker 1:

Hang on. I've never heard of it before.

Speaker 2:

You've never heard of Hashi Tammy. What? No, They've got Hashi in Sydney.

Speaker 3:

I don't think they do. No, they all made Aliyah.

Speaker 1:

Don't shame me for not knowing this. Hang on. What's the?

Speaker 3:

full name. So the full name is Hashome Hatzair, shortened in Australia, like we do with everything, tahashi. It's sort of the founders of the kibbutz movement in Israel. Strong political social justice activism, zionist youth organization, and we like to do a little bit of scouting too on the side.

Speaker 3:

So you had summer camps and things like that, absolutely and things like that, absolutely so every winter, every summer, from grade two to year 12 and then following I stayed on in the movement to lead the movement for many years as well as just sort of contribute where I could, and I'm actually back in Harsham Althea now. We've actually created a Beit Tarabut, a life movement. So it's an exciting new project that I'm picking up and helping drive forward so that people from the age of zero to 100 actually have a place to express their Hugshamah pathways in Australia and continue that ideological journey as a Zionist.

Speaker 1:

Can you still go on summer camps as an adult?

Speaker 3:

You know what? We actually ran a summer camp for families this year. Oh lovely, it was over three days out in the forest in Belgrave, just outside of Melbourne. We had 120 people come, kids with parents, and it was such a vibe, any swinging between the parents.

Speaker 1:

But that's what you go to youth movements for. You go to PASH.

Speaker 3:

For the schmutz For the schmutz. No, it was a very well-behaved situation.

Speaker 2:

Was there a lot of talk about environmental activism in the Hashi days, or did that come more at home?

Speaker 3:

Activism is a huge part of the Hashi ideology. So, really walking the talk, you know we would sit around and we'd have intense ideological discussions. But what good are discussions if you don't act on your ideology? So we were really known for being out in the community, being quite outspoken, attending rallies, you know, driving for human rights and equality. But you know I actually wouldn't define myself as an activist ever Scientist, yes, community builder, yes, self-proclaimed nerd, 100%. But activist really isn't a word that sits in how I view myself at all. Why is that? I suppose from my perspective, I live a great privileged life and I have a wonderful family. I live a great privileged life and I have a wonderful family, roof over my head and education, a community, and with the privilege comes great responsibility. So it's just what I'm supposed to do. I just feel that I'm called to do that kind of work and yeah, I don't know. Do you know the words of Hillel? If not now, then when? Yes, so it's about that calling to do what's right.

Speaker 1:

We need to address something that I'm ashamed to admit I'd never heard of, and I do know that there are other listeners who are in the same position as me. I'd never heard of the World Zionist Congress or the upcoming elections until I met you. So what is it all about and why should Jews care about it?

Speaker 3:

It's actually really nothing to be ashamed of, Tammy, because I don't think many Jews in Australia have heard of what the World Zionist Congress is before or why it matters, because we've never gone to proper elections here in Australia. This is a really new experience for the Australian Jewish community. Now, what is the Zionist Congress? So it was established 128 years ago by Theodor Herzl and it's a powerful democratic forum where Jews around the world can help shape Israel's future and Jewish life. So it meets every five years to make key decisions about the direction of Zionism and the allocation of billions in funding for Jewish and Israeli causes. The other really important thing to know about the Congress is that it sets policies and funding priorities for the World Zionist Organisation. So I guess its composition influences leadership, influences, governance and budget decisions for key institutions. So the Jewish Agency for Israel and Jewish National Fund.

Speaker 1:

Why should Australian Jews care? Or?

Speaker 3:

vote. Oh, so much to care about. Okay. So, as it's the only global democratic platform for Jews across the diaspora to have a direct say in Israel and global Zionism, we need to show up to have our voices heard. So the decisions made at the World Zionist Congress affects things here in Australia too. It affects things like Jewish and Zionist education, our youth movements, our Aliyah program, our diaspora, israel relations and the ideological direction of the Zionist movement itself. And, of course, decisions made at this World Zionist Congress in 2025 will shape Israel and the Jewish diaspora for the next generations.

Speaker 2:

So I wasn't aware that there have been preclusions on Australian Jews voting for and selecting candidates to go to the Congress. What were the past barriers in place for voting and what's happened at this year's election? That's different.

Speaker 3:

So it's not that there were barriers to voting beforehand. It's more that our community has made decisions in the leadership bodies based on a proportional representation of different types of Jewish expression, whether that be religious to non-religious and secular. So there are various parties running throughout these elections. What's different this year is that we're going to full elections and that's being driven by the need for us to really understand what Australian Jews have to say. What are our opinions? How do we feel? What do we want for our Zionist future, for our children's experience of Israel, for our life here in the diaspora?

Speaker 1:

So it sounds like we're giving people who would previously just give their opinions on Instagram an opportunity to put their money where their mouth is. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's an interesting way to put it. I suppose so. So you know, it's taking things from having an opinion to doing something about it. This is a real way that Australian Jews can affect change. It's an enormous opportunity, a democratic right to engage with this process.

Speaker 2:

So I encourage our listeners to go to our website. We will have a little bit of coverage over the next couple of weeks on the Congress and, of course, once the votes have been tallied and the representatives have been elected, we'll have some analysis on who is headed to the Congress. So I believe that there are five tickets pursuing the 13 slots or mandates that have been made available to the Australian Jewish community. So we have Aza Mazorti, which presumably represents the Reform Mazorti community here in Australia. Hatik for Australia, your very own. We have Likud, which I anticipate is aligned with Israel's Likud party, mizrahi Australia and for those who aren't familiar with Mizrahi, it's typically aligned with the religious Zionist movement. And then Eretz HaKorosh.

Speaker 1:

Also, you were about to explain the idea that there's 13 people can go, but there are five different groups that you can choose people from. Explain it to me like you're my bat mitzvah teacher and I'm 13 years old. Okay, sure.

Speaker 3:

So we have 13 mandates available, and Australia receives 13 mandates based on the size of its Jewish population. So all across the world these elections are going on as well. Depending on the size of your Jewish population determines how many seats you get at that table. So currently, in these elections, all these various political sites not necessarily political, but all these various slates in Australia are vying for these seats. So how it works is it's based on the number of votes in total that are received, so every single vote counts, and then they divide that total number of votes by the number of seats, and so that tells you how many votes you need to get to achieve one mandate or delegate position, and so each slate has its own list of people, candidates that they're putting forward.

Speaker 1:

So ideally all 13 of you could go.

Speaker 3:

That would be magnificent. What an achievement. That would be All right.

Speaker 1:

But realistically, how many do you think will be able to go?

Speaker 3:

You know, that is such an unknown, because it's the first time we've gone to elections in Australia. There's no data for us to have any insights around the size of the voice that stands behind TICFA.

Speaker 2:

I've had it in the last couple of weeks for us to have any insights around the size of the voice that stands behind Tikva. I've had it in the last couple of weeks. Lots of people come to me soliciting my vote, which is funny because I'm not sure that I'd be eligible under the rules of being able to vote.

Speaker 1:

Is that because people assume you're Jewish? People just assume that you are, that's right.

Speaker 2:

So I've got people Romy, from both your ticket to Tikva and from AZA coming to me seeking my vote, and I haven't had anyone yet from Likud.

Speaker 3:

There's still time.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to be solicited by Likud representatives in Australia and the others too. But I guess I'm left wondering like are you not going to have a split vote, like the ASA majority ticket? When I read about it, hear about it and then hear about yours, as we just did, I'm like you're advocating for many of the same things. In the end, your ability to garner votes is going to be split because your platforms are actually quite similar. I take it there's no value in merging the two tickets because they clearly represent reform majority. But talk to me about the possibility of that vote being split, because surely that's on your minds at the moment.

Speaker 3:

You know, what's really important is that Jewish Australians step up and have their voice heard.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

That's the most important thing. It's the first time that we have the opportunity to go to elections, and the more Jews in Australia that actually show up to vote, the more that we'll be represented in the way that suits our community at that table, and for me that's what's really important.

Speaker 2:

I guess, romy, I hear what you say about the potential impact that this could have. But for those progressive, liberal Zionists that are seeing what they feel to be the kind of dismantling of Israeli democracy and its replacement with a ultra-nationalist, a religious to the extreme, form of settler power, how can this Zionist Congress, which doesn't have a representation in the Knesset, that won't have a seat at the table of the Israeli government or a future coalition, how can it actually change the course of the state of Israel?

Speaker 3:

The World Zionist Congress is the democratic forum that elects people into power, to positions all throughout the World Zionist Organization, and the World Zionist Organization is a very, very heavy lifter when it comes to policy decisions, when it comes to funding allocation. We're not talking small amounts of funding here. It's $5 billion over a five-year term. So if we have a strong, progressive Zionist voice at that decision-making table, we can elect people into leadership roles in the JNS. So where are those trees going to be planted? Is the funding going to go to illegal settlements, or is it going to stay in Israel to rebuild after those devastating wildfires that we saw recently, to rebuild after war? There's so many opportunities to make sure that that funding goes exactly where it's needed.

Speaker 2:

We had a conversation last week with Adam Kirsch off the back of his article in the Jewish Quarterly, and so Adam's thesis is that it's very important for Jewish people to reclaim their land, zionism, and to reclaim that term Zionist. I'm interested in your experience, romy. You have worked in the climate sector. What has it been like for you in the last 18 months as a Zionist, as someone who feels a strong attachment, affiliation with the state of Israel and with Zionism, and as a former Zionist youth movement leader in that part of Australia where we have seen a kind of uproar of intolerance and an uproar of anger directed at Zionism and Zionists?

Speaker 3:

I think, like most people in Australia and around the world, october 7 rocked my world, absolutely, flipped it upside down. Having lived on Kibbutz Neroz for quite a while, a lot of people I deeply love died, held hostage or luckily survived. So framing the past 18 months with an enormous amount of community grief, personal grief shortly after October 7, losing my father, added to that cumulative grief and then, in many ways, being told that because I'm a Zionist, I don't belong in my prior activist communities or political spheres, has been immensely challenging.

Speaker 2:

Have you lost friendships and collaborations as well professional connections?

Speaker 3:

I'm really proud to say that it hasn't affected my professional life. In that respect, I work with incredible academics and intelligent humans who understand nuance and complexity, but I don't think that's everyone's experience.

Speaker 2:

Have you had conversations with people to help them understand and see your perspective and your experience?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I think a minimum of one a day.

Speaker 2:

Really Well, good on you, because I imagine that you know the impulse for others would be to step back from having conversations, to feel on the attack, to feel insecure about their place in these spaces, in these organisations. But you've actually stepped into it and you've wanted people to understand the Jewish perspective and the Zionist perspective.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Having a voice as a Zionist is an important one. I'm not going to pretend that it's an easy one. Launching this campaign for High Tech for Australia has opened up the online space for let's call them yucky comments, for want of a better phrase.

Speaker 1:

Vitriol.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's not been pleasant, but it's important. If we don't stand up for what we believe in and the future that we want for Israel and Jewish life in the diaspora, we let other people decide for us life in the diaspora.

Speaker 2:

We let other people decide for us. So I'm interested in how you have reframed Zionism, or being a Zionist, to your non-Jewish, environmental or politically progressive or even Australian Greens voting, supporting friends, colleagues and others.

Speaker 3:

For me it's simple Do all peoples have the right to self-determination? Yes, does that exclude Jews? Absolutely not. Is that where my Zionism comes from? 100%, it's very, very easy, and if people can't step into the humanity then we can't have a conversation and unfortunately, that just has to be okay. I can't convince people if they can't step into humanity. You know, everyone defines Zionism so differently, even within our own community. I wouldn't want to presume that Zionism what it means to me, means to somebody else, and I think it's important to have safe, careful dialogues to explore that and allow people to express themselves.

Speaker 1:

Rami, I'm absolutely floored by you and the amazing work that you're doing. You've achieved all these things. You're probably referred to as a really good person by a lot of people, but do you have any little dirty secrets? Is there anything you're ashamed to admit?

Speaker 3:

I have an embarrassing little thing that I'm ashamed about. Okay, so every time I drive through the Bagel Belt in Melbourne, I cannot help myself but stop off at the Jewish bakery and buy myself the deep-fried gefilte fish balls and sit in my car and have a nosh Ashkenazi to the max. Where do you get these deep-fried fish balls? They're from Glick's Bakery to the max.

Speaker 2:

Where do you get these deep fried fish balls? They're from Glicks Bakery. So, romy, I've been led to believe that it's a very straightforward, easy way for Australian Jews to vote in the Congress for their Australian representatives. Tell us a little bit about how people can do it.

Speaker 3:

Well, what's really important to know is that voting is open. Now closes on the 27th of July, so we've got a short few more weeks period in which people can get out there and vote. To vote, you have to be 18 plus, you have to be permanently residing in Australia and you can't have voted in the Knesset elections that have just been, because you're not allowed to double dip on your voting and it only costs $5 and that $5 is considered the Zionist shekel. So 1897, Theodor Herzl proposed the Zionist shekel as the idea of formally affiliating with the Zionist movement. Aside from that, actually, locally, the $5 is contributing to making sure that the online voting platform, which I'm sure we can provide the links to with the podcast, is secure, that your data is protected and it maintains a healthy online platform. So it is really easy. It takes about two minutes to do to get online to cast your vote.

Speaker 1:

Did Hatikva consider getting Glix on board, that with every vote you get a free deep fried fish ball? Because that was that ever in the meeting room? No, I'm available for consulting, just so you know my dream.

Speaker 2:

Romy, best of luck to you, your ticket, and all the other tickets or slates that are contesting the election.

Speaker 1:

Next year in Jerusalem, Baruch Hashem. But actually where is the World Zionist Congress? If you get to go, what city?

Speaker 3:

It is in Jerusalem this October.

Speaker 2:

How could it be anywhere else?

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Romy.

Speaker 3:

Bye.

Speaker 1:

That was research scientist, creative communicator and community builder Romy Zinger, who is head of the Hatikva. Australia slate in the World Zionist Congress elections.

Speaker 2:

You have until the end of July to cast your vote. We'll leave a link in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

And that's it for this week. You've been listening to A Shame to Admit with me Tammy Sussman.

Speaker 2:

And me, Dash Lawrence, here in the City of Churches.

Speaker 1:

This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with theme music by Donovan Jenks.

Speaker 2:

If you like the episode, forward it to a mate. Tell them that it's even more enjoyable than a pie floater.

Speaker 1:

Go on.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's just a thing that we eat in Adelaide. It's a pie. A pie floater it's a pie swimming in a puddle of pea soup.

Speaker 1:

Amazing.

Speaker 2:

It used to be served from a particular van on the parade in Norwood. Yeah, delicious.

Speaker 1:

As always, thanks for your support and if you haven't died from eating too many pie floaters in Adelaide, look out for us next week.

Speaker 2:

See you then, thank you.