Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Bright, Bold & Beautiful; it's Aussie Legend Beck Feiner
In this episode, Tami sits down with illustrator, author and all-round creative powerhouse Beck Feiner for a conversation that’s equal parts Jewy, chewy and a little bit shamey. Tami and Beck cover the full spectrum: from having proud Jewish mums and to online dating, Jewish weddings (and divorces) to why Jewish South African immigrants often find themselves the butt of jokes. They also tackle a thornier question: in the current climate, are Jewish-themed picture books still commercially possible? As always, expect a mix of light, shade and the kind of honesty that makes us just a little bit ashamed to admit…
Book tickets to Jewish &
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/events/jewish-2
Beck’s website:
Articles adjacent to this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/should-i-say-im-jewish-on-my-dating-profile
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/my-renewed-hope-for-a-changing-south-africa
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/orthodox-women-begin-sex-strike-against-divorce-refusal
Tami and Dash on Instagram: tami_sussman_bits and dashiel_and_pascoe
You won’t regret subscribing to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
X: TJI_au
YouTube: thejewishindependentAU
Facebook: TheJewishIndependentAU
Instagram: thejewishindependent
LinkedIn: the-jewish-independent
You and I connected at a Jewish illustrator author networking event. Yeah, you said let's chat, let's collab, let's be friends. Didn't hear from you for months. Then you reached out to me. You said I'm so sorry, I've just been going through a divorce.
Speaker 2:And I wrote back.
Speaker 1:I'm so jealous.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's so true.
Speaker 1:I remember that and that is how our friendship started. That was the voice of the one and only Bec Feiner. Bec Feiner is a graphic designer and illustrator. Her art and story shine a light on social issues and tap into the mood of the time to promote harmony and diversity. Bec's creative style has evolved from her years working as a designer and art director in the advertising industry in Australia and overseas. She has created many much-loved picture books, including Aussie Legends, alphabet If I Was Prime Minister, clyde the Greyhound and it's a Mitzvah Now.
Speaker 1:I met Bec in 2024, and we hit it off. She's a lot of fun and Dash and I have been wanting to get her on the show for ages, so we're lucky, the calendar's finally aligned. She's a bit of a big deal. In today's chat, bec and I cover lots of chewy and dewy topics, from Jewish weddings and divorces to South African immigrants being the butt of the joke and whether Jewish-themed picture books are still feasible in the current state of the world. Our conversation has light, shade and shame, as always.
Speaker 1:Before we get into it, if you're listening to this podcast from Sydney, it's time to book tickets to the Jewish Independence live event Jewish, and it's on Saturday night, august 16th. It's going to be emceed by me, tammy Sussman, and the night will feature a lineup of incredible writers, poets, comedians and musicians Joanne Fedlar, miriam Hechtman, ziggy Stern, george Modokai, yoav Turel and our feature artists for the evening are Sarah Yael, all the way from Malam Bimbi, an incredible singer, songwriter and content creator, and all-round legend Talia Emsalem. We'll leave a link in the show notes. Okay, let's get on with the show. Here's Beck Feiner. You're listening to Ashamed to Admit, bec Finer. Welcome to the Ashamed to Admit studio. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:I like that you pronounced my name correctly, well done. How do some people say it? It's Faina F-E-I-N-A-R, but then I'm too like nice to actually ever correct them, so it just goes on forever like that.
Speaker 1:So I said it correctly just to be clear. Yeah, it's good. Okay, good, Before I channel my inner Dash Lawrence, my co-host, to ask the first question apologies, he couldn't be here today.
Speaker 2:he had a better offer to go to Bali for a family holiday really which part of Bali, though it's questionable if that's a better holiday, I don't know, I didn't ask.
Speaker 1:if someone says I'm going to Bali, no questions. I don't want to hear about it Totally.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:So if Dash were here and not in Bali, potentially battling Bali belly, I'm not wishing that upon him, I'm just saying that's high probability yeah, Never happens to me disappointingly.
Speaker 2:Kind of want to come back a little lighter and I've just got an iron stomach, you know.
Speaker 1:This is a fat phobic free zone. Okay, bec, I know. Look, I'm none of that from the people that have barley belly.
Speaker 2:It is truly horrific. I would never want to wish it upon myself, but I literally have an iron belly in saying that I'm probably now gonna get gastro.
Speaker 1:So there you go yeah, you're also dismantling the jewish stereotype that we have weak intestines, which I like, because that was the purpose of starting this podcast yeah, and I and I like I'm sporty.
Speaker 2:You know that's also dismantling a stereotype let's start at the beginning.
Speaker 1:beck, are you a syd girl born and bred? Yes, fascinating.
Speaker 2:I did think you were Melbourne. Okay, now I'm going to offend the area I come from, because I had this wonderful childhood at North Shore, sydney, but I found it very boring and suburban, and so when people say that I'm from Melbourne or Bondi, I'm like thank you, I'm this cosmopolitan gal, but really I'm from the North Shore.
Speaker 1:But no disrespect.
Speaker 2:I've already disrespected people that get barley belly. The North Shore, that's fine. I loved it there. I had a beautiful childhood, there's nothing wrong with it. I was just very arty and I think I was dying to get to the big smoke and like really be in urban kind of cultural heartland you know, that really was it.
Speaker 1:I assumed that you were from Melbourne. Because of your accent, it does sound more Melbourne.
Speaker 2:Ah, and I didn't go to a Jewish school, so that could play a big part. What school did you go to? In saying that, I went to Kalara High School, which basically had a Jewish principal and a large part was Jewish, but you didn't get the accent, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So for those international listeners, kalara Public School that's what it was called Kalara, kalara.
Speaker 2:I can't even pronounce it, kalara.
Speaker 1:Kalara is a school in Sydney's North Shore. It's a public school, significant Jewish population, but not a Jewish institution. So you were there for primary and high school.
Speaker 2:Linfield well, which was the next suburb, and then high school and had a great art department, everything. So it was a great school.
Speaker 1:I recently wrote to my art teacher and I told her that yeah, wanted to let her know that she played a significant part in you becoming the big deal you are today.
Speaker 2:You know, I sent her some of my books and I just said, you were really amazing and she was, and she was really stoked. And she's not an art teacher anymore, she's a therapist. Seems like the next step, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say art teacher is the gateway into therapist.
Speaker 2:But she had heart-shaped glasses on, which I think is amazing to always have an art teacher with heart-shaped glasses.
Speaker 1:Were you always the arty kid at school? Was that your thing Completely?
Speaker 2:my thing. It was like a thing when I was zero years old. I mean, my parents had to stop me from defacing all the photo art albums in the house, like I used to draw over, like beautiful photos I used to draw on walls. In the end I was allowed to draw under the dining room table. You know, when people don't know what they want to do in life, it's almost like I can't relate, and I know that sounds really pathetic, but it's just because it was so. It was always my destiny and I don't know. I have two brothers and I don't know if this was a slightly sexist thing. I don't think so, but they kind of just my brothers were pushed into that kind of academic land where I was just let like go for it, you know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that was my thing. So when I went to into design school and I think that's when I arrived in the centre of Sydney, I did visual communications at UTS and it was like I've arrived, you know, like that was like my happiest years of just being amongst all the same people. You know, that was pretty special and it was just a relief to find like-minded people. That got me, because I felt a bit weird, did you?
Speaker 1:I still feel weird why did you feel weird?
Speaker 2:because I like say the most weirdest things can't relate, and you know it's actually interesting. My mum always used to say when you get to Israel, it'll feel like you're coming home to your people. Right, I got to Israel I didn't feel like that at all. I went to New York and I was like these are my people, because I think just a bit weirder, you know, like embracing that individuality.
Speaker 1:When you spoke about feeling a bit weird or feeling a bit different, I did wonder whether your Jewish heritage played into that and made you feel othered in some way no, I've just always been.
Speaker 2:It's interesting I watched that show too much recently. You know the Leonard Dunham one and I. I don't really relate to that character, but I do relate to that girl. That was always a bit too funny and a bit too loud at school and it's taken me years to kind of embrace that because I was like the class clown. I was the one that she would do really well, but she distracts others and kind of that kind of stuff. Maybe I could reinvent myself a little bit, but I've always struggled a little bit with that because my humor is a bit on the nose, you know like.
Speaker 1:So maybe that's it, but not about my Jewish identity actually you're now at UTS studying visual communications, and what did you think your career progression would look like?
Speaker 2:so I went to university and basically got a degree in partying and like discovering boys, um, and it was at the time when I don't think we're like the focus was not on technology. So I came out with like a career in appreciation of, like black and white photography in the dark room and like drawing life drawing but not a lot of other skills. I went off to London because I'm like I'm gonna make it in London and I went off and I just I graduated with honors, like everything seemed like I'd done well at my HSC, I'd done well at university, all those kind of ticks right, got to London. No one cared. I had no skills and I actually had one of those, and I know it.
Speaker 2:I always talk about your 20s as being such an emotional period of your life, you know, and I just could not get a job. It's fine now, but at the time it was incredibly dramatic. You know, I was like a runner on a film set. I worked in like a retail store and then I started getting these terrible graphic design jobs that was so the opposite of creative and I just felt like I'd made an incredible mistake in my life and that I was never going to fulfil some sort of I don't know prophecy, something that I thought I mean, this is very grand, but I thought I was going to do something special. I thought that that was going to be like my thing in life. I think my mum always thought I was really special. She was that Jewish mum that, before you know, when you open your portfolio, even before you open the page, she gasps like, like I also.
Speaker 1:I have a very supportive mother, like Naha Central. But I joke that like is it Jewish pride or is it enabling?
Speaker 2:then I had a father who was the opposite. When I look back, I think I strove to get like his love and I know he's so proud of me. Maybe he saved me in that that way and I always joke that my mum if I didn't get anyone else's opinion of what I looked like, I would think I was seriously a supermodel and that I should go Like my mum every time she sees me. It's like Becky, you look so beautiful and she means that too. Like. It's not her being like, but it's just so funny.
Speaker 2:But you know I was actually thinking about this the other day why Jewish people strive. I think there is something that you're proving to your parents constantly. You know, maybe it's the parents before, maybe it's the immigrant thing, but you have to kind of, you want to be a success story and I think and I don't know if it was my dad kind of maybe being less like he grew up with parents I couldn't really say I love you. You know all that kind of stuff. So the love was there but it wasn't communicated. So maybe I subconsciously just tried to win his love too. You know that way.
Speaker 1:Did you gloss over the fact that your parents are from South Africa because you're ashamed to admit that?
Speaker 2:You know, it's interesting when I talk about South Africans, and this is an interesting topic, because let's just go there right. I say to people oh yeah, they've been here for ages, like as in, like that kind of thing, and I think that's me trying to get people to accept us, and maybe I've always been doing that, like we're not these terrible Jewish South Africans, you know, which is kind of crap it's really bad.
Speaker 1:I really think about the South African community in Sydney. I can only speak to them, the South African Jews in my life, and they are all wonderful people who give so much to our community, like all the grassroots organizing and charity and everything. Yeah, my parents, my mom why are they so easily the butt of the joke? And I say that as someone who impersonates in my show and Boss series. It's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Like I think there's some sort of comedic. I mean, people are naturally drawn to imitating the accent, like I was just doing it the other day when I bumped into someone, and I think that the fact that you can pinpoint them so easily with that accent. The other thing is it comes across like it can come across really aggressively, and there are aggressive South Africans as there are aggressive Australians, but I think you just remember it more. I don't know. I mean that's a whole, because my parents' accents are still super thick. Like I think once you come here, like that is it, you're locked in, but I guess it does. It's that. And being Jewish, I mean it's like kind of two stereotypes that you are, like these people that came over from South Africa with no respect, racist, you know, like all these things that you feel people are judging you about that kind of thing, can't fill up your own petrol, because you never did that stuff. So maybe I was relieved not to have the accent.
Speaker 1:To tell you the truth, we're delving into some real deep self-hatred now. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with that, though some shame, shame hey are you shame.
Speaker 2:But that's what this podcast is all about it's about shame but when I do meet other South Africans of Jewish, non-jewish, I love them and I always connect with them really well and then I'm really proud of my heritage. People think that they just came from this easy life and my parents were immigrants and started with nothing and like there was like really struggled, didn't tell me they struggled, and so that's an interesting side too, that we didn't just come over covered in gold, that kind of thing. You know, that's true.
Speaker 1:A lot of the Jewish community and the non-Jewish community in Australia downplayed our South African immigrants' trauma and what they had to leave behind in order to come here and the moral and ethical dilemmas that they were in, like if they had a good business, but they just over in South Africa, but they didn't want to live under apartheid and whatever.
Speaker 2:But we did miss the holocaust. You know like a lot of us came out, went to South Africa and then a lot of Australian Jews, like their grandparents, went through the holocaust like it was a bit of a different story.
Speaker 1:Yes, so do you think that there's some kind of trauma competition?
Speaker 2:no, maybe I don't know that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean that to be funny. I I mean like resentment, that, like you know, you haven't suffered in the same way that we have.
Speaker 2:But also I mean to be fair they had like housemaids and people that looked like you know, they had quite fortunate lifestyles there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think there is a bit of resentment and jealousy from non-South African Australians from that perspective. So we just went on a big tangent. But we were with you in London when you're doing crap graphic design jobs and you're like I know I can do something better than this, and so how did you get from that To now? Yeah, what's the trajectory like?
Speaker 2:I did a lot of graphic design and then graphic design felt a bit dry and then I went and did award, which is this prelude to advertising, and I thought I'm going to work in concepts, went into advertising and it was only about 15 years ago. But it was really different from now in the fact that I mean, it's no mad men but there weren't a lot of female art directors, it was very male dominated, which I didn't mind. Again, I like working with men and I love coming up with TV ads. But as soon as I had a baby it was really hard to do those pitches. You know where you're staying like all hours of the night working on these, competing with people. And then I tried to go back, quit a full-time job, did some freelance work and then I was like there is more to life than this and it was a very weird moment of me going I need to get out. And when I had my second baby I was like give me nine months and I just want to see if I can make it as an illustrator. So one night I remember going sitting in my bedroom and on the computer and I just said what happens if I put a face on a letter and I started making these shapes with letters and I opened an Instagram account, which and I know everyone pays out social media and the negative effects, but for me it was. It was the key moment of me being able to kind of launch me because it'll provide this platform, and I started sharing them just to you know public, but just to my friends. And I started sharing them just to you know public, but just to my friends. And I was like A is for Adam Good. I draw Adam Good as a letter of an alphabet. B is for Bob Hawke. I put him and every night I just said I'm going to make this alphabet poster for my son to teach him how to read, and I'm going to give myself 26 days, 26 letters of the alphabet. And so I made myself that I had to complete a letter every day because I knew I just wouldn't do it if I didn't. And I started releasing it and then at the end I made a poster.
Speaker 2:And the funniest thing is, I put a website and I said to my friend Dave, I was like, well, if I put it up and the posters haven't arrived, is that okay? I mean, no one's going to buy it. He's like no one's gonna buy it, he's like no one's gonna see it, it'll be fine. And then a journalist saw it and wrote an article I think it was an SBS article and I like I'd linked it so I could get paid on Shopify all of a sudden I remember sitting in my job and you know when you get like that, it makes a ka-ching sound and it was like ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching and I was like oh and so it just she made an article, released it and it just went viral like it was crazy. So this poster was an alphabet, so you could learn the alphabet.
Speaker 2:But this idea was that I would put incredible legends of Australia as each of the letters and at that time there just wasn't a lot of diversity out there in children's books or in art, and now it's everywhere, but there wasn't.
Speaker 2:So putting Indigenous people in, putting you know, I got flack for putting Julia Gillard in because everyone hated her at the time, but there was no like strong female role models that I was trying to get them in to talk to kids about it and to talk and about scientists and artists saying that you could be a legend but you can come from many different parts of life, and so that was the idea behind it. So the letters looked like people morphed into the letters, if that makes sense. And so then my idea was always to make it a kid's book. But I couldn't really afford to make my own kid's book, so that's why I put it as a poster, which was really lucky, because when the publisher I went for rang me and said, have you made this into a book? I said no, not yet. So then I was able to turn it into a book with the help of them.
Speaker 1:You had already pitched this to them first. Yeah, to many different ones, and they'd all said no, but it wasn't until your poster went viral.
Speaker 2:Then you started getting the calls From all the people and I would have given it to them for like a dollar, I reckon. But the funny thing is and I say this to anyone publishing a book they get like millions of applications. They might the most, and so that is why you need to prove, in weird ways, that this is going to be successful. This is not a normal. Like the hungry caterpillar would have never gotten up now that it's such a tough world the publishing world that they want kind of these, these sales.
Speaker 2:So you have to come at it from quite inventive ways to prove that you can be successful and make money for them.
Speaker 1:They're more likely to publish someone who is illiterate but has 15,000 Instagram followers.
Speaker 2:I know, don't get me started about celebrity book. That's a whole segment.
Speaker 1:That's a whole different podcast. Okay, so your poster comes out, you get your first book deal, and then is that the launch pad for your next books.
Speaker 2:Interestingly, the publisher was never that keen on this idea. I thought that Aussie Ledger's alphabet could always be. It had legs. It could be many different things, not just for Australian icons, and my husband at the time also was really supportive of that. He actually also wrote some books with us. We were a really good collaborator, robin, and then another business partner, an old friend of mine actually. He came in and the three of us were like let's make this something big. So we've actually got our own business called Alphabet Legends and we sell in Australia and America and we own it's our own imprint. Like it's our own business called Alphabet Legends and we sell in Australia and America and we own it's our own imprint, like it's our own label.
Speaker 2:And that's we have over 100 books. We sold like half a million books. We've got all these different sporting so every basketball team. We've got legends. We've got autistic legends. We've got science legends. We've got eco legends. We've got any type of legend. It's evergreen this idea. Science legends. We've got eco legends. We've got any type of legend. It's evergreen this idea. Jewish legends we went through a stage but this sounds really bad because we should just make it anyway, but there wasn't just a huge target market for it.
Speaker 1:Would you put yourself for the letter B? Yeah, yeah, I would. I think you should. I mean Barbara Streisand or Beck Feiner.
Speaker 2:Well, you can bump her to S.
Speaker 1:So how many Jewish books have you created already, Jewish-themed books?
Speaker 2:In America there's a woman, Julie, who I collaborated with on a few books. So I've done like this it's a bit of an A to Z kind of book of Jewish just explaining Jewish culture. Yep, so I've done that in America and then I did it with her. It's a mitzvah which is all about kindness. It's such a beautiful book and I have it yeah, did I give it to you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I bought it. You bought it, god, I know you signed it. I bought it.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you, and that's a beautiful book, yeah yeah, and I always say that's a book for anyone. It is not just about Jewish culture, it is about teaching kindness and that is the essence of that book, which I think is important for everyone. That came out in Australia too, so that came out two years ago your book came out just before October 7th, just before. The idea was releasing it when there was Jewish holidays. So like that we would, you know people would buy the presents for that time of the year.
Speaker 1:The reason why I know about the date of the release of that book is because I know that a bookstore in Sydney had to turn off their comment section when they posted about it's a mitzvah because of the vile commentary that it was attracting yeah, it was so surprising because I didn't see it coming and I.
Speaker 2:I don't think we saw anything like that coming, did we? We were all pretty naive at that and, to be fair, that bookstore posted. It was a really lovely post. It was about read your kids about Jewish life, read, read to them about Palestinian life. So it was meant to be a very like you know, show kids all sides of the stories, like you know, just make them know there's a big, wide world out there, and it was meant to be a nice place.
Speaker 1:It was supposed to be unifying.
Speaker 2:Exactly and I mean, I did not see that coming and yeah, it was a bit of a slap in the face and it's made me because you know, I talk about being brave and it made me. I have a diverse social following and I've always preached kindness. I do a lot of illustrations on Instagram that reflects the moment. But I started to become very scared which is not like me, because I'm brave and bold about not wanting to post anything that would inflame my audience. I got into trouble for not posting about stuff.
Speaker 1:Did you yeah, yeah, yeah. From who? I don't need names, I just need genre.
Speaker 2:About not talking enough about Palestine, but I didn't post about Israel and I didn't post about anything. And then I suddenly have become, and I'm quite proud of myself. I was like what is my stance on this? My stance has always been kindness. It's like it's a mitzvah. I am going to preach love and unity, and every bit of my work is not about saying this person is right, this person is wrong.
Speaker 2:It is about preaching love and so I feel like that's where I came from and I really back myself for choosing that way to look at things and hopefully inspire others to be more compassionate. So that's what it taught me and weirdly you, you know like I met lots of amazing people reached out to me after that whole incident and I think it actually sucks to those troll people because it actually made me like, get some new friends and find my voice and it was great. It was I mean, it's not great, but it just taught me a lot and I think it was a valuable experience. You know, it wasn't just terrible.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful and profound, and yet I just want to ask you about your sneakers, because that's how you came to my attention. My sister sent me something and she's like, oh my God, beck Feiner is collaborating with oh, Reebok. It was.
Speaker 2:Reebok yeah, I did like an art piece for Reebok. When did that happen? I love that so much that you really represent me. We just had a really profound and then you just went to.
Speaker 1:Reebok.
Speaker 2:I love this. This is what I love too, because that is exactly me too, like I can be really deep. And then I'm like shoes. I'm just gonna make like an imprint. I'm just gonna have such a nice time and it's gonna have no meaning behind it.
Speaker 1:It's gonna look really pretty so if I want to go deep and talk about Jewish identity and the unexpected trauma, I will, but then if I want to go and talk about shoes, oh, during this time then let me yes, 3000%, and I I think that extends to my art.
Speaker 2:So much that whole idea. If I want to draw a pretty picture, just for the sake of it, that makes me feel like it's my form of journaling. So if I want to just feel like I need to draw a flower, I'm going to and I'll just post it. I do a lot of big things but then at the same time, I just love doing beautiful artistic things.
Speaker 1:That you know, that give joy. And never underestimate how many people out there need to see that beautiful flower in between all of the horrific images that they're seeing. Okay, so these sneakers? Did you design a Reebok sneaker?
Speaker 2:No, they were an art. Look, they were for Reebok, but they just got artists to make their own like they. I did five for them. So they're not. But did they produce them? No, I don't want to like, I made them for them and they're kind of like. Showed them like an art exhibition. Oh I know, don't be so. Can you not be disappointed with me? I'm not disappointed with you.
Speaker 1:I'm disappointed with them. Your inner child just came out before when you said don't be disappointed in me.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I know.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that you've collaborated with Robin. Yes, who is now your ex-husband? Yes, say more.
Speaker 2:Well, look, we had a really great creative career yeah, together and we've gone our separate ways, which was really let's just not sugarcoat.
Speaker 2:it was awful, yeah, and it's been a really rocky road because I'm coming up the other side, I think I've talked to you and learning to navigate as just myself as a creative, because we had a partnership. So that's been a really interesting learning how to be, because I was by myself, obviously, as a creative for a long time and then we became a great creative duo and you lose a bit of sense of identity because you're very wrapped up in each other's. He was, you know more, the writer, I was the illustrator, all that kind of stuff. So we still actually collaborate on Alphabet Legends, but I've had to step off by myself in so many ways you know creativity just being one of them, and so that's been a really big, a huge thing for me to tackle, but I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've got no choice, a huge shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, huge thing for me to tackle, but I'm doing it. I mean, you've got a huge shift, yeah, but at the same time, I'm actually coming to terms of the fact that I am a great creator by myself. When you're in a relationship, you lose that kind of sense of self, don't you? So yeah, yeah. So I'm still going. I'm still pretty fresh, but I'm getting there, you know okay did you and your ex have a Jewish wedding?
Speaker 2:Yes, we did. We had a Jewish wedding. He did throw away by accident the ketubah, which I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1:Did he do that before you moved?
Speaker 2:No, it was ages ago we were moving houses Okay.
Speaker 1:We call that a red flag.
Speaker 2:Yes, we did. I thought I ticked a lot of the boxes in terms of being Jewish by like doing all the stuff that I thought was you know.
Speaker 1:No, the only reason why I ask is I'm curious to know if you got a get the Jewish divorce.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Well, we're going through the divorce right now, so I haven't Should I.
Speaker 1:No, well, I'm asking myself the same question, because can you get one for me?
Speaker 2:Can we do like a deal?
Speaker 1:I'm a little bit awkward to call up the rabbi who married us and be like hey, it didn't work out, like I just don't want to go through the. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2:Like I don't want you know the pity isn't it, which I don't like the man does, it isn't that?
Speaker 1:the he has to give it to you yeah the man which I find like I'm not doing that people are saying, well, you don't really need it. To you, yeah, the man which I find like I'm not doing that People are saying, well, you don't really need it unless you are going to marry a Jewish man, which is obviously not going to be the case for me. But can I?
Speaker 2:just say something though, like if he threw out the ketubah, maybe I don't need to.
Speaker 1:It depends on whether or not you're going to remarry a Jewish man. Say more.
Speaker 2:Um well, I am not on J date, so so I was seeing someone. I'm not anymore, but that's been fun. It's been fun doing that again and hilarious A Jewish man. I feel like everyone in the community knows that jewish man so it's like maybe I need to get I call them fringe jews someone from like around the outside. Okay, you know someone that lives in like broken hill or something okay, we have some listeners in broken hill.
Speaker 1:We do the first?
Speaker 2:well, the first, um sure. The first synagogue was in Broken Hill, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was my great-great-great-grandparents established it. I've been there.
Speaker 2:So if I meet someone in Broken Hill that's Jewish, we could be related.
Speaker 1:I think we already are. No, I don't think they're.
Speaker 2:Can you officiate a Jewish wedding?
Speaker 1:I can't give you a kettle bar, but as we've now established, kettle bot really aren't really that important to you. Is dating Jewish important to you now?
Speaker 2:No, it's not, because I feel like I tried to tick that list and you know what's nice and I think, coming back to the whole parent approval thing, I tried to do a lot of those things and throughout this whole thing my parents have been so supportive and incredible, and I've learned that I don't have to, like make them happy by marrying a Jewish person at this stage. I mean, look, I've had kids that are Jewish, so maybe I don't know, maybe that would have been important, but it's really nice to know that they're not. I don't feel judged at all in that capacity anymore, so I'm just trying to be open-minded to whoever it is that is amazing and nice and kind. I just think my parents want me to be with someone that is like really lovely, so that is whoever that is.
Speaker 1:Do you feel nervous when you're on the apps that?
Speaker 2:someone is not going to want to date you because you're Jewish Interesting. So I've begun and I never would have done this before, because not because I'm ashamed, but I just didn't think it was important. I just list it now because I've had a few conversations that haven't been great with people before I listed it, which actually made me feel a bit people wanting to get into conversations about it because they just discovered it and then me having to defend myself and I'm like why put myself into this situation where I need to defend myself? I'd rather just put it out there if you want to date me, date me. But it's like. It's like, I guess like it's about saying I have kids on these things. It's about just saying this is who I am.
Speaker 1:I don't need any of that, you know yeah, as I said to someone recently who isn't Jewish, for you it's an intellectual discussion, but for me it's in deeply emotional and it's about my identity and my people. So you have the privilege of dipping in and out of it. Yeah, and we don't have that privilege.
Speaker 2:I think dating apps are weird enough. I don't need anything that triggers me or makes me feel like I'm not good enough. You know you really have to put photos of yourself up there and do all those kind of things and again, you have really I've had people that are like, really love talking to you, that are Jewish, and so when they're not Jewish, so it also helps you change that everyone hates you kind of vibe you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you got to be careful because, you never know, they could just be fetishizing you.
Speaker 2:God, thank you so much. I'd just like to say I have never had that thought. Now, and now I'm going to think it. So, wow, that's your gift to me.
Speaker 1:All you have to do is say am I the first Jewish person that you've dated? If they've got a long list, it's fetish. I don't want a long list of like yeah, okay, fine. I'm saying, if they're a non-Jew who exclusively dates Jewish women, red flag.
Speaker 2:Red flag, that's amazing, also like who has a long list of dating people is a bit of a red flag too, isn't it? Not at our age. I guess, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Bec. We're going to wrap this up Before you go. What are you ashamed to admit in general?
Speaker 2:I was ashamed that my marriage collapsed. I was ashamed of a lot of those things. Yeah, I was ashamed of all that kind of stuff. So I'm not ashamed anymore, but it's it's.
Speaker 2:I still go into a you know what's interesting?
Speaker 2:I still go into a maybe a more traditional like a bar mitzvah or a Jewish wedding when I'm by myself and I feel a little ashamed and that's like something that I'm still working on because I don't fit the ideal Jewish stereotype of a nice married couple that kids, my kids, bar mitzvahs coming up at the end of this year and we're not this together family anymore. So that's quite a little bit shameful. But I think a lot of my time being Jewish I've tried to follow. I didn't go to a Jewish school but I tried to like follow being a good Jew, and so now I'm just trying to be my own person as a Jewish person and not fitting that stereotype feels really kind of brave and interesting and you still battling it a bit though yeah, thank you for the honesty and we're doing the bar mitzvah, not like a regular bar mitzvah, like we're actually having, like we're doing a little joint family holiday as a weird kind of divorced couple, because that's what my son really wants us to do, and we're having a kid-ish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're like we're doing a few things that are bucking the trend and I'm really proud that you don't have to be, that you know what everyone expects, that big party.
Speaker 1:Can I just say that when you walk into one of those events by yourself, 80% of the couples there will be looking at you with envy. Yeah, that's so. And just to give context to that comment, you and I connected at a Jewish illustrator author networking event. Yeah, you said let's chat, let's collab, let's be friends. Didn't hear from you for months. Then you reached out to me. You said I'm so sorry, I've just been going through a divorce and I wrote back. I'm so, so jealous.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's so true I remember that, and that is how our friendship started, isn't that?
Speaker 2:amazing and I thought what a great girl. I remember you saying that. I was like how refreshing.
Speaker 1:No, well, that's what I mean. Is we think that people are looking at us with judgment or, you know, with pity? But most people, I think, are looking at you and thinking bold, beautiful.
Speaker 2:I remember you saying do you want to keep divorce out of this interview? And I said no, let's include it because I want to talk about it more and it not to be a shameful topic. I want to hopefully get other people I love talking to other people. If other people want to reach out to me and talk to me and I can help them have a better experience, it actually you know it does a lot for me.
Speaker 1:It helps me. It helps me. That's a very generous offer. Yeah, if anyone needs to talk about divorce or wants to divorce, reach out to Bec. Don't reach out to me, I'm still in the washing machine. You're like more in the dryer.
Speaker 2:I'm coming out the other end and I think I talked to you and I said look, there's a bit of light, like it's good to feel the light you know yes. Yes.
Speaker 1:Now this interview is gone for an hour, which means we do not have any time to talk about you and your marathons, which is great, because it's boring yeah, who wants to know?
Speaker 2:I ran 30 kilometers this weekend. Okay, bye, that's beck finer.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me on a shame to admit oh, it was so nice, so nice talking to you, love you, love you and I know that I speak for the entire australian jewish community when I say that we're so excited to see how much bigger, brighter, bolder you're going to get, and lots of love bye. That was my interview with Beck Feiner and that's it for this week. You've been listening to A Shame to Admit with me Tammy Sussman. This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with theme music by Donovan Jenks. If you like the podcast, forward it to a mate, as always. Thank you for your support. Dash will be back next week. We'll catch up with you then. Thank you.