The Jewish Wedding Special (Part 1)

What makes a Jewish wedding “Jewish?” The couple? The rituals? The contract? The person officiating? In this episode, Tami and Shoshana attempt to answer this question. Plus Shoshana reveals a very unpopular opinion regarding the breaking of the glass and they bring out a cork board, pins and red string to piece together a Jewish FB group riddle. 

This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions 

Watch it on YouTube

The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

The article will open up your sino eye. That's a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Okay. To admit.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Okay. It's everything you didn't get in Jewish Studies class. Nailed it. Uh welcome to Ashamed to Admit. My name is Shoshana Gottly Becker. And the Becca is new. Because I got married like quite recently. Muzzletov. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I'm Dvoret ex-closet gay Tammy Sussman. And this is our Asham to Admit Jewish wedding special part one.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Because there's a question mark.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

There is a question mark. So it's like part part one? Potentially. Potentially. I have a feeling, I feel it in my Kishkas. There'll be more follow-up questions. Because we're trying to keep these episodes to half an hour, but there's a lot to get through. It's just setting us up for failure. I think it's managing expectations. Shall we get to it?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yes, let's get to it. Alright. There's some questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah. Um your followers have some questions. Right, because I secretly not secretly, I put it on my story being like, do you guys have blind spots from, you know, like Jewish day school? Things that you feel like you should know and you don't. But I didn't tell them that I was doing the podcast and that I was data mining the answers for the sake of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Of this show, because you're a professional. No, what I recall is prior to your wedding, you made a special Oh like Q and Q and gaze. You did a Q and gaze.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah. I do that all the time. You do, but you said, I'm getting married. Yeah. Any questions? And because I follow you.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

You just screenshot all the I did. And there were a lot of people. That's what this is, by the way. That's screenshotting.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Thank you. For the people listening and not watching, Shoshana is gesturing with her hands. She's making some kind of gesture that resembles. That's screenshotting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Shop. Yeah, they should just watch it. Some people listen while they're walking their cat, and they they need to be able to have your gestures described. And I was saved by the grace of a broken light and will no longer be disparaging cat people on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

So you have 33.2,000 followers on Instagram. Yeah. And I know that a lot of your followers were really curious in the lead up to your wedding.

unknown 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

About how you and your then fiance, now wife. How does that sound by the way? When I say wife. Like still getting used to it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I secretly cringe when people say my wife.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, I said it like once, and then I was like, oh, I actually hate it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Never do that again. Yeah. That's a funny. But like I never do it now. Yeah. That was a public service announcement to people listening. So your followers had a lot of questions about how you were doing your Jewish wedding. So Shoshana's gonna be here for you on today's podcast. And as Shoshana brought up in our very first episode, I'm also a marriage celebrant.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah. Which I also have questions for you.

What Counts As A Jewish Wedding

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So I'm here for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Okay. I'm gonna ask you the first question, actually. Go for it. Um do you think you do Jewish weddings, or do you just do like weddings and then sometimes they're Jewish weddings?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

That's like asking me, am I Australian or am I Jewish Australian or Australian Jew? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I think. Yeah, so sometimes do you mean if I'm marrying two people and they're like neither of them are Jewish, then it's just a wedding.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, but like if you like how do you def like how do you define a Jewish wedding as a person who performs weddings for Jewish people that aren't religious? And you really want this to be the first question.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, because I'm like I'm more interested in that than like whatever I have to say. Well, because I was gonna ask you what what in your opinion constitutes a Jewish wedding. I'm biased at first, so fine. And we should preface this by saying that the answer that I'm gonna give and the answer that you're gonna give would be very different to the answer that maybe a modern Orthodox rabbi would give.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Oh, yeah, I think that should be like a blanket rule of like anything that we say could definitely be refuted by like a million Jews.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yes, and the biggest cliche in the Jewish community is there are how many Jews in the world and there are how many Jews are there?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I think it's like 15.8 a million.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

So there are 15.8 million Jews in the world, and there are 15.8 million ways to be Jewish or opinions. So, in my opinion, if our couple comes to me, and I have had couples who are both of them are Jewish, they just don't um have a connection to a congregation or a synagogue. I have couples come to me where one is Jewish and the other is not, and therefore a rabbi won't marry them. And if they want Jewish ritual in their ceremony, I will absolutely include that. If they want to call their wedding a Jewish wedding, then they can. If they want their wedding to be a Jewish-Greek wedding blend, it's I I always say it's not my wedding, it's your wedding, and it's what you want your wedding to be. Now, if I had an Australian of Catholic origin and an Indian Australian of Hindu background, and they came to me and they said we would really like to break a glass because we love that. We saw it on wedding crashes and we think it's really fun. I would I would maybe feel a little bit uncomfortable about that. And if they wanted to say that theirs was a Jewish wedding, I would say, well, that's absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Have I answered the question like a politician or yeah, very political.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Okay.

unknown 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Is that what you were expecting me to say?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I think so. I'm I'm like, what are the how do you, as a celebrant, I mean we can answer this like at the end, but how do you make a wedding feel Jewish? Because to me, and this is I think my answer, because you're you wanted to ask me. I did. What constitutes a Jewish wedding? So for me, the thing that's Jewish about a wedding is like the the structure, right? Because it is like the socially expected structure of a wedding, right? It's the cultural like sameness across space, right? Like a modern Orthodox wedding here is probably gonna look like one in America, in Israel. Like they're all very similar because it has that set structure, and also the ritual. That, but like if a couple aren't affiliated, I'm interested in what makes it, how you turn it into a Jewish affair. Maybe affair is the wrong word for a wedding.

Kiddushin Nisuin And The Basics

SPEAKER_01 7:27

How do I turn it into a Jewish event? Yes. Well, how about we go through the different rituals? Great. And then I'll tell you at the end, well, this is what I think makes this particular wedding, which may not have two people who are both Jewish. Jewish.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Okay. Are you happy to do that? Yeah. Okay. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Um, you were you ask a question, okay, and then I'll answer based on like, and then we can fill in the gaps.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Okay. Here's an example.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I was officiating a wedding many years ago, and the groom was Jewish, and he wanted to get married. So did the bride, actually. They wanted to get married underneath a hoopa. And one of his family members came forth and said to me, What do you call this? I'm putting on a South African accent, just for cultural accuracy. And I said, This is a hoopa. And he says, But it's not a hoopa. And I was like, But it is. And he said, Well, it's not a kosher hoopa. So can you tell me and tell our listeners and our viewers about the hoopa?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Okay, so as far as I know, chuppa is like it's a custom, right? And it's not, it has beautiful meaning that we've created and invented, but like as far I don't think you like the things that constitute marriage, when you look at like the letter of the law, don't often include a chuppa. Yes. And again, fact-check me if you would like. I don't, I I do think that that is pure custom. That has then like become so synonymous with a Jewish wedding, it's almost become law.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Okay, that's what I thought, and that's what I read many years ago in Anita Diamond's book, The Jewish Wedding.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

I have it somewhere. I have it, I think it's in my bag. Okay. In the blue one. Thank you. Thank you. I feel like Mary Poppins. Yeah, and this one.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

The Jewish Wedding Now. You have a newer version of this. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

This is the we actually have two copies. So I'm trying to sell this on a buy sell swab group for$10. No takers.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

All right.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Um, so if you want to buy this for$10 Australian dollars, Shoshana is now holding her book up to the camera for those.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Walking on the and listening. Um definitely sure. Okay. Slight. So that's definitely gonna make our waters spill. I think so. It's a very light book. Okay, so from what I recall from this book, she says in order to have a Jewish wedding, you need some witnesses. There needs to be an exchange of some kind of like a financial exchange. Traditionally, the groom giving some kind of portion of his salary to the bride's family and a signing of the wedding contract.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah. So there's like kinda. Okay. In a modern Jewish ceremony, it's actually two different ceremonies taking place and like two different um like halakhic permutations kind of happening. Um, in times gone by, whether ancient times, whatever, those usually happen separately. It's called kidushin and also Nisuin. Two completely separate. We've we've mashed them together because it makes sense in our modern world to do them at the same time. Um, but one is a basically like promising um the couple to each other. Yeah. And the second one is like as they're planning to live together. And so it could, it used to take place like it could take place like a year apart.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Right? Like you promise yourself to him, and then he goes and learns for a bit or something, and then you start living together after a while. Like, but we've today like just put them as a single marriage ceremony. So what you're referring to is kiddoshin. All right. Um, sometimes called like erosin, slightly different, but like the same vibe. The three things according to Jewish law that can marry someone in this way are number one is like a monetary transaction, like you said, which takes place currently in the form of a ring. Yep. Right? Um, as far as I know, the ring only has to be worth like five American cents or something. Like, it's like a protest, it's like it's I I actually looked it up. There's like so many Jewish nerds on the internet who will like figure out what a weight of silver used to be worth, do the current, like what it's currently worth, and then like work backwards trying to figure out what it anyway. So it's like not a not a lot that it's worth, but it has to be owned by the um like by one giving it to the other.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Right. Um the second thing is a document, yeah, a legal doc the Kutzoba, a legal document that's like that states um the conditions of the marriage, again, because it's a legal framework.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And then the third one is actually like um consummating the marriage. But the third one doesn't happen anymore because it's not modest for someone to witness that happening.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

So it's like hang on. Are you saying that in the olden days, I love saying that by the way. In the olden days. In the olden days, that stupping was witnessed by someone.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Again, I'm not sure if practically that ever did happen. Okay, but you need witnesses to marry, right? The witnesses sign the kutsuba, the marriage document. The witnesses have to watch the groom put the ring on the bride's finger, which is why we use our pointer finger, because it's it's just the most visible finger. Okay. If you're standing at the front and you're holding out your pointer, you can see the ring go on.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Otherwise known as the index finger.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

The index pointer.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Pointer. Well, yeah, we grew up. You point with it. Okay. All right. So I heard that we put it, Jews put it on that finger because of the some kind of artery that goes through the.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I don't think that's true. I think Jews are very are very practical people. Okay. Come up with lots of things that make sense, and then um, after a while, that's not enough, and we need like the deeper spiritual meaning that we like add on.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Right. That's my opinion. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Your opinion is valid. Yeah, it's the reason why we're here.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

So yeah, so so you so the witnesses have to see the ring going on the finger. So you'd think that also like the witnesses would have to watch the consummation because like they have to make sure that that that they're married now. The rabbis kind of banned that because it is not appropriate to watch two people have sex. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Um in I mean, that's also your opinion.

Witnesses Rings And The Yichud Room

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, but if you also think about it, like the Ychud room is also designed for that, right? Like a little quickie after the wedding.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Sure. Yeah. I'm glad you said that and explained it, because there will be listeners who don't know what the Ychud room is.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

The Ychud room is like if you're supposed to spend like it's like seven minutes in heaven, right? You're supposed to spend time alone with your spouse after the wedding. Um, and like in Orthodox circles, it's like really enforced of no one's allowed in, so someone will stand gut at the door as well on the other side of it. Um nowadays, it's just it's really nice to like take a breath after and have some time to yourself. Um, Orthodox people fast the day of their wedding, so it's after the ceremony, they'll have some snacks in there or something like that. Which is also why I once explained this to my university friends, and now they call the Yukud Room the snack room.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Um, and so there was a while there that like all of the Sydney Uni College kids knew about the snack room because my friend told them about it. Um yeah, and so like that's the kidshin' part of the thing. That's the first half of the ceremony, right? We um we read out the kutsubah, we exchange the ring, the rabbi says a nice blessing, blah blah blah. And then there's the second half of the marriage, um, which is the sec like the Nisuin, and that's when we do like the Shababrachot, the seven blessings. Okay. Um, where it's like the celebr celebratory nature of like the wedding itself, as opposed to the legalistic other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Okay. Yeah. Nisuin is how someone with without a lazy palate would would so mean, but yes. But that's how I express my respect and love for people is by roasting them.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Nisuin is the part where you do the seven blessings and the first of those seven blessings is the bracha, the prayer over the wine. Yes. Okay, and these days it's become very commonplace for that wine to be white wine and not red. Do you know why that is?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Because people spill it on the bride.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Correct. The Jews are a practical people. Practical people. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I don't remember. I think we just had grape juice. No, I think we had wine.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah.

Breaking The Glass Debate

SPEAKER_01 16:12

White wine. Can't remember. Okay, so that's basically a Jewish wedding.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And there's other stuff around it.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Such as um the like we break a glass at the end, which has become like for a lot of people, that is a Jewish wedding. The breaking of the glass. I hate the breaking of the glass. I unpopular opinion. Super unpopular. So I, when we were like starting to plan the wedding, I had a couple of hangups that I had to let go of of like what does a Jewish wedding look like? What does it look like when it's two women? Um, and one of my friends sat me down, they're like, Don't be stupid, it can be whatever you want it to be, and like use it as an opportunity to be super intentional about the choices about what you include and don't include. And I was like, Yes, we can get rid of the glass breaking, because I hate it, and I hate that like I hate that it's become the most like ubiquitous, like you smash the glass, everyone cheers, that means the end you're finally married. Even though technically you're already married after the Kutzuba, like the rings on your finger. You're legally, like that's done already. Um, and so I was like, to Sky, like maybe we can skip the glass breaking because like it symbolizes the destruction of the temple, um, and like at even in your happiest moment, you should be mourning the losses of our people thousands of years ago, over thousands of years. Yes. And I'm like, I don't want it. Um, I don't like it. Like it's our sadness and heartbreak, and we smash, and then everyone starts cheering for it. And Skye goes, You think that you were denying my non-Jewish friends of the one thing that they know from Jewish weddings, like you have another thing coming. Like, there's no way. Um, and she was right, because like the only thing every time we would talk about the wedding, they're like, We're so excited for the plate smashing, we're like, that's Greeks. They're like the glass smashing, they're like, Yeah, we're so excited for that. And so my thing, like, Sky did it. Okay. Yeah. And that people were really confused by that. That like the girl one smashed the glass. The girl one. That's not my words, that's their words. Okay, you know what I mean? Yep. Yeah. Okay.

Chuppah Meaning And What’s “Kosher”

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, yeah. Um, can we talk about the hupa and what that symbolizes?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, so as again, like I've read in different places, and I couldn't find this again when I was doing research that the chuppa was like a European um custom that we kind of adopted into Jewishness. Again, a common thing that happens when and it makes sense because as far as I know, like the like a chupa wasn't necessarily a Svati custom until more recently. Yes. Um, which makes sense that if it came from European, whatever. Could be wrong. Yeah. Um, but what we say it symbolizes is the openness of Abraham and Sarah's tent, right? It's uh chupa is open on all four sides, it's supposed to be about welcoming people into your life. And also symbolizes like a home that you're gonna build together with um your new spouse and like what you want it to be about.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

That's what I say, and that's the information I have now. Now, many years ago, when that man approached me and said it's not a kosher chuppa, I wish it's that common thing of getting the right response after the event. I wish I had said, well, actually, there is no such thing as a kosher chupa because it's something that isn't halakhically required. Yeah, it's something that we have picked up from being exiled and living in different communities.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And I've and again, I've heard all these different things from different places. So I've also heard before that it's supposed to be outside. So a lot of chuppas are outside. Yes. I've heard it's supposed to be under the stars. Okay. And I've also heard if you've ever been to the great synagogue in Sydney and you've looked up at the ceiling, they've got little beautiful stars painted all over it because they hold chuppas there, and chuppa it's supposed to be under the stars. Like that. So I've heard all of these bits and pieces of like unfact-checked, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah. Have you ever been to a wedding in Istanbul? No, I can't say I have. Jewish wedding in Istanbul. I've never actually been to Istanbul, so safari community there, majority safari community, and they get married underneath it's an arch, but then the talit, the prayer shawl, is draped over the arch. Are you so well, are people supposed to get married underneath a prayer shawl? Well, a chopa can be anything. So at Al Khopa.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

It just has to be a canopy. Yeah. Um, at Al Khopa we use my dad's talus. Yeah. And so that was like fastened to the four corners. And so that was really meaningful. Beautiful. Um, but also people like if you go to a shore, they'll have like sometimes they have like really ornate velvet ones, sometimes it's just cloth, like yeah, it can be anything really.

Same Sex Weddings And Sydney Reality

SPEAKER_01 20:53

At my wedding, we used lace tablecloth purchased from a craft store. Is it spotlight? It was spotlight, but I'm aware we have international listeners. I don't know what the American equivalent is, like a hobby lobby or something. Something like that. Anyway, we are no longer married, and I think that maybe it was jinxed by the spotlight. By the fact that we used a lace tablecloth. Um I think it's beautiful. Okay. So look, I definitely think this is gonna be a two-parter because I had questions about same-sex weddings, and I had questions about why some rabbis in a in the United States, modern Orthodox rabbis in the United States, can officiate. But like we don't really have it here. Question for you before we wrap up the Shame to Admit Jewish Wedding Special Part One. Part one. Because now we know it's a part two. Now we know there's gonna be a part two. Yeah. Um you You are female, you married a female. What okay, and you were married by a reform uh masortie. Mazorti. Uh conservative. Conservative rabbi, not modern orthodox. No. Now I'm aware that there are same-sex couples who have been married by modern Orthodox rabbis in the United States. How come they were able to do that there? But in Sydney, Australia, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Again, all my opinion. America has a lot more Jews, and therefore more Jews, there's like more niche, like smaller, like a spectrum of religiosity. Okay. And you also have to imagine, like, we're a very conservative community. Right? We're always about like 50 years behind the states. Not just, I think, Jewishly, but also sometimes in other social ways. Yes. And we just don't have rabbis who are willing to play ball like that in Sydney. I know there's like, if I could think off the top of my head of maybe like three rabbis who are modern Orthodox who might be willing to do it quietly if it was a good friend of theirs, kind of thing. I know one rabbi, so when I got, I mentioned this on my story, and one person got like really angry and was like, I know a rabbi, he'd be willing to do it in Sydney. And I'm like, yeah, but I know who you're talking about, and he's not community affiliated. Right. That's the other thing. Like, you can be a rabbi and not have a community. But more often than not, if you're a rabbi of a community, one, you're pleasing the community around you. Our communities are very conservative. Yes. Um, you have to play ball with the bigger um like um institutions, right? So the rabbinical council of Australia is it's like it's a chabad run, essentially. It's not run by them, but like most of the rabbis on it are chabad. Okay. Okay, so that's gonna swing it religiously to the right as well. Okay. Um that's about it. You know what I mean? It's just like our rabbis, we don't have the kind of rabbinic community who would be willing, I think, to be radical in that way. Okay. Um, and to sort of push back on that because there's too much the other way pushing.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Right. Which upsets me as a queer woman, but as a civil celebrant, it's actually quite good for my business.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

I like see it's funny because it doesn't upset me because again, like you just like I don't know, I just expect it. And I think the thing for me is that um I try to view like halakhic marriage, if you view Jewish law as binding and you're an orthodox person, it's less a homophobic thing, and it's more that like it is a legal structure that just doesn't cater to two people of the same sex. Okay. Right? The same way that in Australia, before John Howard in like the late 80s or earlier, marriage was always defined as like between two people, and it didn't say man or woman, it just said two people. But if you were two women and you went to the courts, it like it was a s there was a structure that just didn't cater to two people of the same sex that we've changed. Okay. Um and I think that there's so much um so many other things to be upset about sometimes with orthodoxy that this is like I I understand why this is a line for people.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Like as a lesbian who is married, like I understand why that is hard for for people to um to change their religious worldview about.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Sure. And just to fact-check you in how it's time or before 2017.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

It said man and woman. It said man and woman. But no, I'm saying before then. No. I'm pretty sure, and again, fact-check me, but John Howard introduced the language of man and woman to the marriage act to make it more like anti-gay marriage. Ah. So before then it just said it just said marriage between two people.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

And then I'm pretty sure Howard changed it to be between a man and a woman. All right. Um, but again, like if it even if it said before like marriage equality was legal between two people, yeah. Our heteronormative brains would say, oh, a man and a woman. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's just how that legal structure works.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Um, so I'm personally not fully offended, offended by it.

The “Current Fiancé” Cost Spreadsheet Post

SPEAKER_01 26:38

All right, but you've slandered John Howard. So. Good. And I'll do it again. All right, which leads us to our final segment. Has nothing to do with our final segment. It's time to play Shame in the Sheddl.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, that felt good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Okay, so this one comes from a Facebook group, arguably the most cooked Facebook group in New South Wales. I'm not going to. And we say that as a compliment. Okay, we do.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah. Cooked in a good way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Um, Shoshana, would you like to do the honours?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, I will.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

So this is an anonymous member as well. It is. So they weren't willing to put their name to this. Hi all. Trying to plan a Jewish wedding, and I feel like it will be very expensive. Ha ha ha ha. My current fiance has plenty of friends, and I was wondering how much a kosher wedding for a hundred people could cost. It helped a lot if you have your sheet with the cost of everything and possible suppliers. Thank you very much. Now I remember when this went up because I almost very earnestly replied to it because I had just gotten married, and then I decided not my circus. Like I'm I'm not getting involved here. Do you remember why people in the comments were getting really I do. And you missed it. Well, I knew I said it. Uh no, but you didn't put the the emphasis on this word. I think it's funnier if you just read it through.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Right. I'm gonna read the bit that cracked me up and that made the comment section go off. Yeah. And it was, in fact, let's throw to AJ, our producer, and Rob, who's off camera. Did any word there pop out to you? No. Cooked. No, I mean that was how I there was no cooked in in the actual description. I'm gonna read a sentence to you again.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Oh, something about sheet?

SPEAKER_01 28:31

No. Trying to plan a Jewish wedding, and I feel like, hang on, I'm gonna read this as a person with an advanced diploma in for mathematical arts. Hi, all. Trying to plan a Jewish wedding, and I feel like it will be very expensive. My current fiance has plenty of friends. They got it now.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

My current fiance.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I I read this with sympathy. Okay. Because current fiance, because it's about it will be very soon spouse, partner, wife, husband, whoever this is. Generous reading. Yeah. And I also can absolutely tell that English is not this person's first language. Right. This is either like an Australian, Israeli. No. Um, yeah, absolutely. What makes you think that? Um, it help a lot.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

It help a lot.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

I think that's a typo. No, but that's and also the space between much and full stop. Oh, okay. I'm telling you, this is a person who struggles with an English keyboard. Alright. That's really culturally sensitive. And it's also, but it's also like I know enough of these people that I can read it in a second. Understand.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Um whereas as the divorce of this duo, I read it as current. Current. And most people read it your way, and they were like cracking up. I also read it as someone who is super pissed at their fiance who's not pulling their weight. Has plenty of friends, yeah. So it's current fiancé. But if he doesn't get his shit together, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Honestly, okay, this is so interesting because I read this as a groom. This is a groom talking about his wife or his female fiance who has a lot of friends.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

But maybe that's gendered for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I think that's gendered for you. I don't think men typically write ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Again, like I think, I think it's a man who's nervous about how much his fiance, and again, this is super gendered. Yeah. Maybe a bit problematic. Okay. But I fully, I like this deep reading of it. Yes. Yeah. I fully read this as this is like a Jewish man or an Israeli man who has an Australian fiance who has lots of friends, and he's freaking out about how much this Australian wedding is gonna cost him. Because weddings in Israel are like, I mean, they're not cheap, but they're much cheaper than they are here, right? Like kosher catering a dime a dozen over there. Right. And like that's how I read this. And also it's like, and again, this is a gendered, but like he wants the sheet, like he wants an Excel spreadsheet of like breaking down the costs. Right. Because he needs to see it in front of him because men need help like that. They can't conceptualize it in their heads. Hey. Um, yeah, anyway, that's what I that's how I read this post.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

I think what we need is a cork board with some pins and red string.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And here's anonymous member now. We should like look him down and bring them in. Bring them out like Ricky Lake style. Yes, like this is your life kind of vibes, you know. This is your post.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

You're coming. Yeah.

Outro And How To Support

SPEAKER_01 31:42

And that brings us to our outro. That is it for today's show. You've been watching or listening to Asham to Admit with me, Tammy Sussman, and Shoshana Gottlieb Becker.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

This episode was brought to you by the Jewish Independent. The Jinn Dependent with Allyway Productions. The vocalist in our theme song is Sarah Yell. More credits are in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

If you enjoyed this episode, tell your friends about it. Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Tell your parents. Get them angry because we talk things that will make them angry.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yes. Share it to your con Share it with your conservative uncle. And please give us a positive review.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Keep things bye. See you later.