Jewish Afterlife, Naming Traditions, Modesty and Bisexual Anne Frank.

There’s something for everyone in this week’s episode as Tami puts listener questions into a hat and Shoshana answers them (and makes fun of Tami’s hat). Plus someone in a Jewish Facebook group tries to disguise sexual gloating with marital concern. 

This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions 

Watch it on YouTube

The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Shame to ask, shame to admit, got dewy, dewy questions. This is it, this is it. Why is wicked simple or unsure how to ask? We'll open up the books, the ark will open up your cynical heart. No such a thing as a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Dami and Shoshan are here for you. Ashamed to admit.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Ashamed to ask. It's everything you didn't get in Jewish studies class.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hi, and welcome to the Jewish Independent podcast. Ashamed to admit. I'm one of your co-hosts, Tammy Sussman.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

I'm Shoshana Gottlieb Becker, and I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I'm happy to have a pulse today.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Why?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Lahayim.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I don't know. Just I've I went to some funerals lately. Yeah, a lot of people are dying.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Yeah. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Was it the Ayatollah? You were the celebrant at the Ayatollah's funeral.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I was. They decided to.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I knew they would go with you in the year.

Eulogies And “Zest For Life”

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, no, they decided that they wanted something a little bit different this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Um, no, I've been thinking a lot about eulogies.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

In every this isn't a cry. With Ayatollah. This isn't this isn't a cry for help, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

You've just been thinking about eulogies.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I've been thinking about eulogies, thinking about my own. Oh. Because I've noticed, I'm not okay, but I am okay. I have noticed, I wonder if you've noticed too, as someone who is quite observant, that in every Jewish funeral that I've gone to, whoever delivers the eulogy, usually a rabbi, will say they had such a zest for life. I do zest. They love zest. They love zest for life.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

You know why they say that. Why? Because the rabbis don't know the person who doesn't. Okay. It's like, it's like the equivalent of if you were murdered and your neighbors were like, she lit up every room she walked into, and you're like, when did you ever see me enter a room? You were angry at me for putting out the garbage wrong once a week. That's the equivalent of the rabbi saying that.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Thank you for validating that. I actually wanted to ask you, and it may be putting you on the spot a little bit. It might be like a public proposal, which I don't like. I'm married. I was kind of hoping, would you deliver my eulogy if I die before you?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I don't like the if in that sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

We're gonna die at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

All right. On the same day. Um can you can you make sure that you do not include the lines zest for life? Because I have many things, but I do not have a zest for life.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

I don't think I can make that promise, I'm sorry. I'll do it just to like piss you off one last time. Get one last little jab in there. And say you know that wait, you know the thing is is that do you know what zest now means for the youth? No. It's like a new way to say gay. You say he's a little zesty. Ah so I can say that you had a zest for life.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

You can say she was zesty, but you cannot be zest for life. And you cannot say her Judaism was really important to her. But it is so important to you. You say she's one of the dewyest persons I ever knew. You can say that.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Here's what I'm hearing. You're gonna write your own eulogy, and I just have to deliver it.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

No, because as I'm I've known you for some weeks now.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

I've known me for 11 episodes.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I've known you for 11 episodes. And what I've gathered is that you don't like to read things that are put in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

That's true, and yet you've still tried to write your own eulogy twice now.

unknown 3:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

I'm just She was zesty for life, and her Judaism was so important to her. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Fuck you. I retract. No, I still want you to do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

No, I want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

I'll make a Canva Evite and make the Hevra post it on their website.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Definitely don't want my funeral at the Hevra. Because men and women have to sit separately, and I don't like that. Shame. Yeah. You? Have you thought about the venue?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

No, I don't like thinking about my impending death. Really?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah. So one of your followers wanted us to do a whole episode about the afterlife.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

That's too much for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

So you said how about I'm like we're too as a as a people, we're too obsessed with death. We should stop ruminating on it. Yes, maybe something comes afterwards, but we don't need a whole episode on it.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

So you made an offer in improvisation. You we'd say you made an offer, and I accepted that offer. And your offer was let's just have it as one question in a hat with a bunch of other questions that people want us or you to answer. And I said, sure, let's do that. Even brought a hat. And for those of you watching, you brought two hats. I'm wearing one of them, and the other one is on the table. How did you decide which one you were gonna wear? That's what I want to know. For those watching, one matches my outfit and the other one does not. For those listening not watching, Shoshana has picked up the hat. She is shuffling the questions.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Okay, I've got my first piece of paper. Do Jews have naming traditions? That's the whole question. That's the question. Do Jews have naming traditions? Yes. We do. Do you mean traditions in terms of like the names we choose, in terms of the ceremonies and ritual around naming?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I the person who asked it, I think was more curious in like in their culture, they have to take the surname of the mother and the father. Like last names. I wasn't even thinking about it. Well, even th they said both.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

So from that a question came from the So it like most things, it depends what kind of Jew you are. Depends on how observant you are. How observant you are Sefari, Ashkenazi, all those things. So for the most part, because we live in a patriarchal society at large, it is mostly, you know, everyone takes their husband's last names and the child will get that name. However, a lot of people are modern. My friends just had a baby, she has both of their last names. Um it, yeah, double barreled, whatever it is. So that's that's not a specific Jewish thing with last names. If you are Ashkenazi, so like European vibes, you you don't name after someone who's alive because there's stupid superstition that the you know the baby has like taken your life source almost, and that the angel of death is confused and then thinks that you're dead, so then we'll go for you. Yes. And target you. Yes. So you only name after dead people. Sure. If you're Svati, you don't name after dead people because you're like, well, then why are you naming the baby after something morbid and sad? Yeah. You've got a name after life. Uh-huh. So it's just really interesting that those there's actually two completely opposite traditions that have arisen. So Sfati people will name after grandparents who are alive or parents who are alive. Ashkenazi people will only name after people who've passed away. And then you've got other like subsets of if you're in certain religious groups, you'll name after famous figures within that specific sect. So there's lots, I'm not sure, sure you notice this. There's a gajillion Menachemendels in the world. Yes, there are. Because the late Lababa Chirebi's name was Menachemendel. Who knew? Yeah. And you'll have, if you're a girl, you can be a Chayamushka, you can be a Sararifka. There's all of these different name combinations based in traditional names from the leadership and of these communities and their wives.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

My hot take is that it is impossible to dislike someone called Chayamushka.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

And someone who went to a school with a lot of Chayamushkas, I don't think that's an apt hypothesis. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

It's just based on like, you know, you're like, that person has a friendly face. How many Hayamushkas do you know? None. Okay. I just think mushka is cute. Mushka is cute. It's a cute name. I have firsthand experience in the tension between Ashkenazi Safari naming rituals because my kids. Half and half. Half and half. So either way, we were going to offend someone. Someone. And who was going to get the blame? So what did you do? Me. So they're named after an alive person? So you were like, no. No, I was like, absolutely not, naming after this alive person. Um, we'll we'll just so the cop out basically is they can have the Hebrew name can be the live. Because that's another naming ritual, is that Jews also get a Hebrew name. A Hebrew name. And that's the Hebrew name that what's the use of that? That's the one that they get named oftentimes in a synagogue. So, yeah, so Jewish boys are named at their bris.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

God bless you. Um, Jewish boys are named at their bris. At circumcision, circumcision, eight days after they're born. Jewish girls are traditionally named at any time the Torah is read. And we have the tradition that, I mean, again, a hundred years ago, two hundred years ago, you would only have your Jewish name. But because we live in a broadly secular world, a lot of people will have a secular name that they go by on a day-to-day basis, and a Hebrew name that they the use of a Hebrew name is if someone needs to pray for you for your health, they'll use that name. If you get called up to the Torah for an aliyah to read from the Torah or to have a blessing of the Torah, you will use that name. When you get married on your keturbah, on your marriage license, they'll use that name. So, in like in official ritualistic Jewish events, they'll use your Hebrew name. What's your Hebrew name? Shoshana.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Because it is a Hebrew name.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Yeah, my parents were just like, you can you can do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

So you can have both. You can have it as your your first name, if it's a Hebrew name, can also be your Hebrew name. It doesn't have to be a completely different.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

If your parents want you to have just like a Jewish name, then that's your Hebrew name. Okay. Uh whereas my brother's Jacob, but then his Hebrew name is Yaqov. It's different. I'm not gonna full name him on air, because that's a bit mean. I'm not gonna dox him. Okay. But um, yeah, so that's the but then I know the opposite of because usually it's you go by your your secular name for your whole life, except for the religious occasions. Whereas I know people who they go by their religious name all the time, except when they go to the workplace, all of a sudden they're Tim. You know what I mean? All of a sudden they have this name in their back pocket because they know that the general population can't pronounce Khananya or whatever it is. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Understood. Ask me what my Hebrew name is. Is it not like Tamara? No. Really? Yeah. Rivka. Oh. One of the matriarchs. Nice. Means nothing to me. Why are you named after someone? No. Huh. I think my parents just got no, they just got pressured to give me one. So they were like, eh. So they opened the book and went, that one. Speaking of ways to find names. Yes. I know of someone in our community who was looking for a name for their child.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Oh, I'm scared.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And they know it's hilarious. It's brilliant. They went on the Yad Vashem website. Oh my god. Can you please explain what the Yad Vashem website is?

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yad Vashem is Israel's official Holocaust Memorial Museum, and they have a website. Part of the work that they have been doing for a long time is collating as many victims as possible. And so they have a name system database that you can search up the over six million names of dead people in. And so I assume they did that. Yeah, they did that. They read through the six million names.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Not all six million names, but you know, old names, old fashioned names come back in into fashion.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

And so So I think that when children are named, they should have a middle name that is an old person name, so that when they reach like 75, they can become an old person. Because I don't know anyone in their 80s called Shoshana. So that's funny, because in Israel, Shoshana's like an old lady name. Oh. Yeah. Where so my friend, her middle name's Edith. I'm like perfect. When you're 78, Edith. You know.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Can you maybe now live? You could give me an old person name now. You could endow me with one. What do you recognize?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Could you say Tammy?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Because I am already old because I told you I was born in 1987 in a previous episode.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Oh okay. Tabitha. Yeah. That works.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Yeah. Also, a Tomudic name.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Is it?

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Well, it's I think it's in the Greek Bible translation. Great. No, I think it's Tomudic. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Okay. I'll go with that. Tabitha. So did that kind of answer the question? I think so. Naming rituals? Yeah, it makes sense. Okay. Mm-hmm. I think it, or just one last thing I'll add is your surnames will differ depending on the country, the diasporic community that you live in. I also know that in Mexico, you it's you have to take, it has to be double barreled. Really? You have to take your mother and daughter. But that's not religious, that's just like the law of the land. Yes. So sometimes you have to adhere to the law of the land and whatever. All right. Next question. She's shuffling the questions.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Is it okay for two Ashkenazis, or you're in an ushos, to talk about why do you keep trying to use slurs? Like you're inventing slurs.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I'm not inventing slurs. I'm writing the question as it came to me.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Is it okay for two Ashkos to talk about Mizos on a podcast? I assume you mean Ashkenazim and Ms. Rachim. Yeah. Okay. You've made them sound like slurs. You've made me sound hateful on the podcast. I hope you're happy. Is it okay for two is it okay for two Ashkenazi women to talk about Mizrachi people on the podcast? Where did this question come from? Came from followers. Yeah. Is it okay like in a cultural appropriation way?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I'll tell you where this question came up.

unknown 14:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Okay. It was in a discussion where people were, I guess not complaining, but they noticed that there isn't as much Mizrahi Safari representation in the media or in Australian pop culture or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

I think to be fair, there's barely any Ashkenazi representation in Australian pop culture, but that's besides the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

As well. And because I was in this discussion and because I have this podcast, someone said maybe you and Shoshana could talk about Mizrahi Safari thing. And then someone else said, is it okay though for two Ashkos to talk about Mizos?

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Look, like, yeah, it is because we're not talking about them in an objectifying way. Um a broader question to be had about what cultural appropriation looks like in a community that is filled with different ethnicities, right? Because if I just turned around and was like, I'm I'm Yemenite now, you know, that's not really how that works in terms of how we pass on culture. Um I think it's fine. I think I tr I don't speak often about Mizrahim and Sephardim as much because I don't I simply don't know enough about it. And I don't want to misspeak and misrepresent. Okay. And so I speak to what I know, which is which is Ashkenazi culture. But we we talk plenty about Sefardim. Yeah. Just not really as much about Mizrahim, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Okay. Your wife is Mizrahi.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, her grandma is from Iraq. Okay. Yeah. And that was like the culture that her dad was brought up in.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Right. And my ex is Sefari and Mizrahi. And my children are Sefati and Mizrahi. Does that mean that I am connected enough to talk about it?

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah, it's literally the equivalent of like, I have two black friends.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yes. I'm not homophobic. Um my server, this cafe.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Yeah, so Sky's also Sky's Sefari and Mizrahi. Her grandfather's from Sarajevo. He's like a like like kicked out during the Inquisition kind of vibes. Um, she can talk about if we need to talk about Mizrahi stuff, we'll just invite Sky on.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So, but um, I think that's what the question is. Do we need to invite someone who is Mizrahi or Sefadi to talk about it? Or is it okay for people to send in questions about, you know, safari, Mizrahi culture and for us to answer it?

SPEAKER_03 17:24

I think it's fine because we're not pretending it's our lived experience. Okay. And I think if we frame it in the way of like this is research we're doing, it is better for the education to be out there in the world for people to understand that there are nuances and differences between Ashkenazi, safari, and Mizrahi culture than it is to be like, I don't know, it's also it's all Jewish culture.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

I don't it's a funny, I don't think that it is a question of cultural appropriation because they are Jewish and I am Jewish.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah. And also, we did technically just talk about it in the question before when we were talking about naming rituals. So that is true. I guess that question's redundant because we all already did it. Yeah, we mention safati people a lot. Yeah, we do. We love safari people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Okay, next, next, next hat.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, we also love Mizrahi people. But not all Sefadi Mizrahi people because we can't use broad strokes. Maybe some of them suck.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Um because if you like all of them, it's just tokenization. Yes. That's the thing. It's like not seeing the actual person.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Would it be bad for continuation if we made you switch hats halfway through the episode?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

For continuity or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Yeah, or is it just like I think it's a funny bit?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

I think it's a funny bit.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

You want to switch hats?

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Fine.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

I think it's funny. I'll take out the remainder.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Okay. I'm now wearing a sun hat for the rest of it.

Do Jews Believe In Afterlife?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

It's so much easier to mix around as well in the in the blue one. Oh man, Jewish afterlife. Don't have to talk about it. Okay, so I want to start by saying something. And that is that there is this repeated phrase and idea that gets passed around the internet. And this is the broad internet, not just the Jewish internet, that Jews don't believe in the afterlife. Because in an effort to separate ourselves from Christianity, some Jew on the internet was like, we don't believe in the afterlife. And now everyone thinks we don't believe in the afterlife. And that is Bukaka. That is not true. Jews do believe in the afterlife. In fact, it is really important and inherent in our belief structures. As and again, I'm not an expert in this space because I don't like thinking about death so much. It's not mentioned in the Tanakh so much in the Torah. We don't have the concept of the afterlife in the Torah. But the rabbis spend so much time discussing what happens after. And we have the concept of the world to come, right? And we have the concept of Gan-Eden, right? The Garden of Eden is this paradise that we go to in, and that is the world to come. And, you know, you do mitzvot for the the reward that you get is in the world to come. Whatever the whatever the big next is, like that's what you get out of doing mitzvot. Like that's the whole thing. It's it's always there. It's over and over again mentioned. I don't know where this fucking lie came from that we don't believe in the afterlife. And we also believe in in hell, or we leave it in a version of hell, right? We don't believe in the the brimstone and the fire, but we believe in if you are a bad person, your soul goes through a purifying process, and you go through what is essentially an atonement process before you can get to the world to come. So that's what we believe in essentially, and then there's more to it. There's concepts of Gehenom, which is what hell is called in Jewish thought, and it's actually based on a real place called Gehenom, which is a valley outside of Jerusalem, the old city. Um, but yeah, there's a world to come. The rabbis talk about it a lot. We are promised great things there in the world to come. I think it's beautiful. I think like I like the phrase the world to come because I think it suggests that like it's a big place. Heaven sounds small to me.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Really? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Heaven sounds confined, it has gates on the front. Yeah. Someone's letting you in. The world to come, it's a gated community. This place, but it's to come. You know? Yeah. It's it's whatever this is, there's a version of this afterwards, and it's great there.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

That's what I like. I like that too. But I have been distracted by the fact that all assets made around this will have me in a sun hat and with no context. It will be like, who is this deranged person nodding? I like it. I think it's funny. To this wise person talk about the world to come.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

I think we don't address it. If they don't listen, they don't deserve to know the context of the sun hat. That's on them.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Can I change hats now?

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah, sure. I think it's even funnier to have four. One question. You're in the sun hat.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

And it's the and it's the most serious question too.

Tzniut And Modesty Rules

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Okay, two left. I got it. On to the next one. Tsanua. This isn't a question, this is a word on a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Tsanua, what is it? Someone wrote Tsanua, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Sanua, what is it? Okay. Tsanua is the concept of modesty. Sniot is what you might have heard of, or tsneus.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

And it refers to never heard of it? I've heard it. Sinus. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Okay. Um, Sanu is just it's the concept of modesty. And in whether that's about dress, right, mostly it's applied to dress. And so religious people will wear certain clothing because part of your body, like certain parts of your body, are private, they're for yourself, right? Or for you and for your partner, perhaps, to enjoy, but not for the broader world. Um and then there's also m like Tsunua in action and modest action and how you uh move through the world in a modest way. Personally, I do fear that it has mostly just been used to control how women act, you know, and sort of this demureness is elevated through Sunua act. Who's to say? I don't know. But yeah, so in traditional orthodoxy, um it's you should wear like from your elbow up to your shoulder off limits. Yeah. So you should be covering. So you have your elbows covered. Yeah. You have your knees covered, so your skirt should sit like on or ideally below your knee. Yeah. And your collarbone should be covered. So no like plunging necklines. Wow. Um, and then people take that to different degrees and lengths. So you might have people who won't wear really skin tight tops because that's also too revealing of the shape. Yeah. You have people who, their skirts will hit mid-calf and also they'll wear stockings underneath so that their legs aren't seen. Yeah. You'll have women who decided, you know what, actually, cap sleeves are fine for me. Um, but I won't wear pants because that's men's clothing. You know, you shouldn't wear it. And then on top of that, you have head coverings and different. So when you're married, your hair becomes also this private property for you and your husband or your partner. And so some women wear a shatel and cover their hair. Some women wear will just cover the tops of their head.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

So a shatel is a wig.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

A wig. Some women won't wear a wig, but they'll fully cover their hair in like a turban. Uh-huh. Some women will, it's enough for them to wear just a headband and cover specific parts of their head. Okay. But it's just about what you how you choose to share your physical self with the world.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I love the word that the Frum Jews use for the turban. Snood. Tichel. Oh, Tichel, yeah. What's snood? I've never heard snood.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

A snood is like a weird beanie thing. It's like a less it's like a a less formal tichel. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Tichl.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah, tichel's nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah. Like you you can't hate a person who's wearing a tichel.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

There are so many types of hair. There's mitpacha. There's, I don't know, there's so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Like if I bumped into someone called Hayamushka who was wearing a tichel.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

It's it's the best day of your life.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Yeah. It's also the different styles of things that you wear and the lengths and the colours and the cuts will signify to others what groups you belong in. Yes. So a modern Orthodox woman won't wear the same kind of head covering that an ultra-orthodox woman would. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

My favorite context in which this plays out in a hypocritical way is when I go to a wedding and the bride is wearing like the slutdiest dress, but there'll be like a little chiffon sleeve. Yeah. Because you gotta cover your shoulders. You've got to cover your shoulders. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Oh, there's a lot of hypocritical things that I love about the Jewish world.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, but I genuinely love.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Should we do an episode called like the hypocrite episode? And it's just, and we just brief all of the things that people are hypocritical about.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

We should do that episode. That's what my number one thing is when people are like, women shouldn't be allowed to do things because traditionally they're not allowed to do things, but then they turn around and will eat a pork steak or something. You know what I mean? Like they don't care about what they're doing, but God forbid women be included.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah. Okay, we'll do a whole episode.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

A whole episode. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

It'll be a really controversial episode. I have one last one.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So I'm gonna pretend to like, I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Can we skip that one? Because it's already half an hour.

Anne Frank As Internet Icon

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Oh, you do want to talk about Anne Frank? Not really. Nah. What if I say the words Anne Frank and then you're like, and that's all the time we have?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Okay, last one. Last one. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

You ready? Yeah. Anne Frank.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

And that's all we have time for in today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

So we're not talking about Anne Frank.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

We're not gonna talk about Anne Frank. We can do a different episode on Anne Frank. I think we need a few episodes on Anne Frank. Okay. If you have strong opinions on Anne Frank, the diary of or the person or the character that people have turned her into.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Sure. Can I say one thing actually?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Are you gonna talk about Slam Frank?

SPEAKER_03 27:11

No, I love Slam Frank.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

So do I.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Have you heard of the concept of bisexual Anne Frank? No. Okay, so people on the internet are obsessed with turning Anne Frank into a queer icon because there are certain proofs or thoughts that her dad redacted parts of her diary where she thought about kissing girls. And so they are like Otto Frank was a homophobe who wanted to closet his daughter. And I'm like, Anne Frank, like, what are you talking about? Like Otto Frank was living in the 40s. His daughter was murdered by Nazis. And he wants to get her book published. You think, you think publishers in the 40s are like, wow, a queer friendly story. I love it. Anyway, she also didn't live long enough to identify as anything because she was murdered by the Nazis when she was like 14. And yet you've got, I'm not gonna mince my words, you've got going on the internet who are like bisexual icon and frank, and they are trying to like, I'm sorry, is it not enough for you that this young Jewish girl was murdered? She also needs to be bisexual on top of it. And if you say she's not bisexual, you are participating in bi erasure and queer erasure from storytelling. Anyway, I could talk about this for hours. It makes it gets me fired up.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I'm just really happy that that question got included in the end because I didn't know where we could go.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

No, I'm like, I think that people have turned Anne Frank into Well, they've turned her into a lot of things. She's just she's become like an icon for all of these things, and I just think we should let the poor girl rest. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just stop it. Yeah. Stop talking about her. Read a book. It's it's really important.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

It slaps. It's not to say. I wouldn't say that about the diary of Anne Frank.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

In fact, I don't want to say that. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just like also learn about some other Holocaust victims. You know what I mean? There's more than one.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Do you think she's hogging the line? The lime right?

SPEAKER_03 29:05

No, I think that she's the perfect victim for people. Yeah. And she was not scary because she wrote and again, so there's I'm sure you've read it, um, People Love Dead Jews by Dara Horn. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I thought you were gonna say, I'm sure you've read the diary of Anne Frank.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

You haven't read the diary of Anne Frank?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

I have not.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

And I'm not ashamed to admit it.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

People let me go back. People love dead Jews. Dara Horn writes a fantastic essay about it, where she's like, he she's the perfect victim because she's still writing from a point in time where she believes in the goodness of people and she helps people erase their guilt around it, right? When she says, I believe in the goodness of man.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Among all other things. Whatever the quote is, it's been a long time since I read it. And so I think that's why people are obsessed with her with bisexual icon Anne Frank. Like it's crazy, like, like it's crazy. I sometimes I hate the internet so much.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

And yet, if it wasn't for the internet, I'd have nothing accept a beautiful wife. You would not be the icon. Well, you may not even have her because she, you guys connected originally. That's true.

A Hinge Match And Instagram Glitch

SPEAKER_03 30:12

She found you want to hear the craziest story of how we're at 33 minutes. But I'll tell you the story of how okay. So Skye and I matched on Hinge. I love I You matched or matched? Matched. Okay. I don't know. Like, I'm not even asking permission to tell the story. Like, whatever. Whatever. So we matched on Hinge. Three weeks before we match on Hinge, Sky finds me on Instagram because someone she follows, like a celebrity she follows, reposted my meme. Who's the celebrity? Hannah Einbinder. Yeah. Reposted my meme. And Skye saw it. She followed me. And Instagram glitches. And my meme gets stuck at the top of her feed for like two and a half weeks. To the point every time she opens her phone, she's like, this fucking Jewish meme shit is back again. I don't know how to get rid of it. I'm so annoyed for like two and a half weeks. And then the next thing she matches with me.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

And she goes, Is that what she opened with?

SPEAKER_03 31:08

No, so I first think I opened. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

You're passive.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

And oh no. So she posted peanut butter and tomato, cherry tomato toast. And I'm like, is that you have mentioned this. Anyway, so I I messaged her. You said that looks gross. I was like, that are you okay? Like, what is going on? She sees my name is Shoshana. She's like, a Jew in Sydney who's a bit funny. And then I know that there's this Instagram person named Shoshana who I I'm pretty sure is Australian. What are the chances it's not the same person? Doesn't tell me she follows me. I mean, did it come through? So our first date, our first date, she I like we go to follow each other. And I don't really use my private account. So I go to follow her from my from the Jewish memes account. And I went, Oh like you already that's really funny, you already follow me. And she likes to say that I said it in much more like, oh my god, you already follow me. But I didn't say it like that. I'm like, oh my god, you already follow me. That's really funny. And she goes, Oh, that's so funny. I like, oh, I didn't realize. And then like three weeks after that, when we were already pretty serious because we're gay, she at one point she goes, I have to confess something to you. It's eating me alive.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I knew who you were, and she felt so bad, and she thought I was gonna hate her because like she was disingenuous and she had been so nervous to tell me that she knew who I was.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Isn't that so funny? That's so cute. It was it's literally it's like it's meant to be it's bitcher. Besher it, yeah. Like Instagram glitched, she knew who I was. I annoyed that's how we opened our relationship. I accidentally annoyed her for two weeks before we met.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

And that was a sign of what was to come. Exactly. And has she turned you?

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Into what?

Anonymous Sex Confession From Facebook

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Peanut butter and tomatoes. No. Okay. I'm like into a lesbian. I was already a lesbian. I set that one up really well for you. I have to. I was confused. Yeah. Alright, it's time for everyone's favorite segment. Um, it's from a Facebook group.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

We can't mention the name because if I get kids out of this group, I'm quitting the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

I'm not willing to sacrifice anything for Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

It's a worldwide group of women.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

That's already too much. You said too much.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Posting for a friend. I will just say it's already anonymous, but also she's posting for the double layer of anonymity here. Hello, ladies. Me and my husband have been married for four months now, and our sex life has been pretty fantastic, if I do say so myself. I was worried as someone who was shome and a gear until marriage. So shhomonagia is when you don't touch someone of the opposite gender until you're in a like until you're married to them. So I um I was worried as someone who was shamanagia until marriage, my husband too, that I wouldn't know how to please him, but luckily we're very comfortable with each other and have a great sex life. I am ashamed to admit it. Oh my god, maybe she listens to the podcast, but I have quite the secret collection of sex toys, mostly, and then I was told I can't say the names of the toys, and a very high libido. Last week, I I can't even I'll finish. Where is this going?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Have you not read this? Last week, I came home early from an appointment and heard some odd noises in the bedroom. I walked in on him using one of my things, toys, and watching a video that I've discovered is called Put Play Porn. But she's spelled porn P asterisk. She she slurred it. R-N. Yeah. I feel like I should be horrified, yet I feel like I've never been more aroused. How do I bring this up with him?

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

This is a lot.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

She's just she she didn't she did not need advice on this. She's just like, hey guys, I'm having a great time in my life right now. Needed to share.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Just need to post it somewhere. Well, anonymous member 499 agrees with you because they wrote in the comments, I can't even imagine what type of porn this is. I did Google it, by the way. But why are you posting this? Not that you need to be ashamed, but you have a great sex life. So this seems like the only purpose is trolling.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

It's like it's, I don't know. I think it's she's bragging.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Is that what you think it is?

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah. It's kind of like that old joke. I don't know if you've I heard it when I was like 10 for some reason, but it's like this um a Jew goes to confession in in the Catholic Church and he says, Father, like forgive me, father, you know, but I have sinned. I recently had sex with two 19-year-old twins. And the the father like walks him through all the rites and stuff, and he says, Can I ask you, like, why are you telling me this? As like I'm you're not Catholic. And the the old guy goes, Telling you, I'm telling everybody. It is so bad, and it's good. It's literally the like that's this. Yes, yeah. She's like, I love my favorite part. She's like, she's like, it's like the gasp putt play. Oh, but maybe I like it. Like, that's the funny part to me.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Did you know what putt play was? No, I also don't want to Google it. Okay. Please don't tell me. I won't. Don't ruin my innocence like that. And I will not encourage our listeners to Google it either. Sounds like you're encouraging it. So, is should she be ashamed?

SPEAKER_03 36:19

No. I think it sounds like I'm happy for her. I think sometimes a lot of the posts from the specific groups are like women who don't know how to have good sex with their husbands because they've come from a broader community where it's not talked about and they don't understand the pleasure that they want or how to ask for it.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Good honor. She's destigmatizing. She's she's doing great. Yeah. She's doing a service. Yeah. Great.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

I also think if it is posting for a friend, I'm like, why did you talk about that with your friend?

SPEAKER_01 36:58

If she is posting for a friend, she's got a friend to talk about it with.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

So why does she if she's posting for a friend, like girl, just go tell your friend that she's having a good time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Anyway. Oh, I like that. I like saying that. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

That's it for our show today. You've been watching, or maybe you've just been listening to Asham to admit, with me, Tammy Sussman, and Shoshana Gottlieb Becker.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

This episode was brought to you by the Jewish Independent, also known as the Jinderpendent. With Ali Way Productions, the vocalist in our theme song is Saria L. There are more credits in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

If you enjoyed this episode, see, I don't like doing this because it sounds needy. But really. Then why do you want me to sound needy? Because you don't sound needy. People do what you say because you're an influencer. Try saying it without sounding needy. If you like the show, forward it to a friend. Or I don't know. You sound like you care. I'm no, you sound like you don't care. Like, I don't care what you do. Like it, don't like it, just whatever. Leave us a positive video.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Hey guys, if you like the show, just like tell us. Leave a review.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Tell your friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

If you have any. Ha ha. Losers.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Thank you so much. Please don't alienate the few listeners that we have left.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

They know it.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Thank you so much and see you next week. King bye. Slay.