Ashamed to Admit
It's everything you didn't get in Jewish Studies class and a lot you probably didn't know you needed.
Ashamed to Admit is the podcast for anyone who's ever nodded along in a conversation about Jewish history, culture, or current events while internally panicking.
Hosted by comedians Tami Sussman and Shoshana Gottlieb, each episode breaks down the big, chewy, occasionally ridiculous questions of Jewish life, identity and community, with warmth, wit, and zero judgment.
From ancient texts to antisemitism to whether you can use a vibrator on Shabbat, nothing is off limits.
Funny, irreverent, and genuinely educational. You don't have to be Jewish to love it. But it helps to have a sense of humour.
Ashamed to Admit
Is it kosher?
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Who decides what is and isn’t kosher? Will the next generation be able to keep to the laws of kashrut in a cost of living crisis? If you had the power to make McDonalds, KFC or Guzman y Gomez kosher, which one would you choose? Plus, welcome to the bonkers world of Jewish Buy, Sell, Swap groups.
This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions
Watch it on YouTube
The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael
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Intro And A Kosher FMK Twist
SPEAKER_01A shame to ask, ashamed to admit, got dewy, dewy questions. This is it, this is it. Why is wicked simple are unsure how to ask? We'll open up the books, the ark will open up your cynical heart. No such a thing as a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Tammy and Shoshana are here for you. Ashamed to admit. Ashamed to ask.
SPEAKER_02It's everything you didn't get in Jewish studies class. Hello. And welcome to another episode of Asham to admit, a Jewish independent podcast. I'm Tammy Sussman.
SPEAKER_03Is it my line? Yes! I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_02I'm Shoshana Gottly Becker. Shoshana Gottli Becker.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You ready for a little game of FMK?
SPEAKER_03I'm scared. Just because I know what this episode's about and it doesn't lend itself to FMK.
SPEAKER_02It's a it's a different it's a little bit different, this FMK from your usual FMK. Today, FMK stands for Fuck it, let's make it kosher.
SPEAKER_03So I don't have to like rate the attractiveness of foods.
SPEAKER_02I'm not gonna make you do that today. Another day, maybe. Please no. But not today. Sufganiot top. And that's next Freddo Frogs.
SPEAKER_03I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_02Sufganiot for our international listeners or non-Jewish listeners. Donuts. Jam-filled donuts. Jam-filled donuts. Okay, that's not on the list. So what I've done today is I've learnt my lesson and I've actually prepared.
SPEAKER_03You understood how games work.
SPEAKER_02So you brought examples. Yeah, you taught me how games work. So today I've brought in examples. There are three lots of food items or genres, and you need to choose which one. Fuck it, make it kosher. Okay. If you had the authority to do so.
SPEAKER_03I I think I do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was gonna say I see you as someone with a lot of authority.
SPEAKER_03I was out at an engagement party yesterday, and someone came up to me and they're like, hey, like been listening to the podcast. I join your cult. And I was like, that makes two people. My wife and Paul.
SPEAKER_02I was chatting to someone at the Jewish Food Festival.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, I didn't go.
SPEAKER_02Last week, I saw a Sky there. Classic. And someone came up to me and said, Hey, I'm the older sister. I'm the one who puts her hand up a chicken's ass. No context. No context. And I kind of forgotten that that's something we had said in one of our episodes. It was amazing. I was like, okay. Then the penny dropped. Alright, so you ready?
Choosing Bacon Seafood Or Lab Meat
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna get my notes out. Okay. FMK. I'm ready. Bacon, lab grown meat, seafood.
SPEAKER_03I have two clarifying questions. Number one, it is machlocket whether lab grown meat is like I think lab grown meat is kosher. Like I don't think anyone says it's not kosher at the moment.
SPEAKER_02I thought the rabs were still on the fence.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Like I don't know. Okay, let's pretend it's not kosher. What kind of seafood are we talking about?
SPEAKER_02All of it? Like prawns, calamari, oysters.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna say seafood just because it in like it intrigues me more than the concept of bacon. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because Jews have some pretty good alternatives to bacon.
SPEAKER_03Turkey bacon? Yeah. Also, like I I'm so Jewish that if I'm in a cafe and they are cooking bacon, I feel sick. Like the smell makes me gag. I used to work at Dimmix in the city, like the big one, and there was a cafe right above the register, and in the morning I couldn't work the register because all I could smell was the bacon and I'd be like, it's gross. Did you tell them that? No, I just couldn't like I just put up with it.
SPEAKER_02I'm personally a big fan of bacon. In fact, it brings back core memories of going to Bar and But Mitzfur on a Saturday morning. No, because if a bar about mitzvah during the Bar A Butt Mitsfye, year seven, if one of those was at the Great Synagogue in the CBD, Sydney CBD, my mum would drive me there and we'd go, we'd do McDonald's drive-thru on the way and get bacon aim at muffins because my dad wouldn't let us have it in the house.
SPEAKER_03Oh god, your mum was like, go into a mum mitzvah at the great, it's too Jewish. Gotta do something on the way to make it less Jewish.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03I love that fear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she's gonna kill me for outing.
SPEAKER_03You're the only person in the world who's like, bacon makes me think of bar mitzvahs at Sydney's grandest synagogue.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure there's more. If you're if you're one of those people who enjoy. I don't think there's anyone. It's you and your mum. That's it. Get in touch. Sorry, mum. Okay, she does listen to this podcast. Okay. That's nice of her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Very proud of you.
SPEAKER_02Okay, not after this episode. All right, next slot. FMK. McDonald's KFC or Guzmani Gomez.
SPEAKER_03Oh. Oh, that's hard. I think I know what you're gonna say though. I think I'm gonna say KFC.
SPEAKER_02I knew you were gonna say that.
SPEAKER_03I just like I really like chicken and I want to explore chicken in all of its like all of its opportunity. You know? I do. I love a good chicken wrap. Okay. That's like the one thing when I'm like, I'm out and about. I wish I could just get a chicken wrap right now, you know? Okay.
SPEAKER_02Because you won't eat kosher uh unkosha meat at all.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I only eat kosher meat, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I thought you I thought you were gonna choose that because in Israel they have kosher McDonald's, so you've experienced also like I've just experienced a hamburger before.
SPEAKER_03You know what I mean? Yeah, like there's not often that you get the fried chicken or the chicken, I don't know, tenders.
SPEAKER_02And Mexican food, I'm pretty sure like you could replicate or yeah, we eat tacos at home all the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, last one.
Fast Food Dreams And Kosher Limits
SPEAKER_03I like this again.
SPEAKER_02Um cake.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I like I like thinking.
SPEAKER_02Nutella?
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Kosher.
SPEAKER_02Not always, not in every country. Okay, so you have the authority to make Nutella kosher kosher for everyone, right?
SPEAKER_03That's a big responsibility.
SPEAKER_02Lint balls. Have you ever had one?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Or chewing.
SPEAKER_02Also kosher. Are they?
SPEAKER_03Lint balls, I think they have to be made like in a certain place and then they're kosher.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_03So you get Again, it's that all lint balls never are everywhere for eternity. Forever.
SPEAKER_02Because Nutella wavers sometimes it is and it's not, then it is.
SPEAKER_03It's like oil prices, it's like it's up and it's down.
SPEAKER_02I thought you meant like palm oil that makes it, but no, you were making a reference to I was being smart.
SPEAKER_03I was being modern.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay, so Nutella, limp balls, or chewing gum.
SPEAKER_03I have okay. This is you're gonna learn something about me.
SPEAKER_02I love learning things about it.
SPEAKER_03I have TMJ inflammation?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Everyone has TMJ.
SPEAKER_03I know. It's just like it's crazy, but I can't chew gum because it makes my jaw hurt. So gum's off the table. Gum is dead to me. Alright, so you're not going with that. Oh, that's hard. I think lint balls. You hate children. I if there's more variety, and there are other chocolate spreads that one can eat. Like that disgusting dark chocolate, like the Hashaha um Israeli one. Just eat that. It's fine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So your alternative is all the disgusting things. Think about all the children.
SPEAKER_03All the children who I had to put up with the disgusting things of Kashrot in my childhood. They can handle it. And you children these days, children these days need struggle in their life. They're too weak. It's because they have so much kosher stuff. Someone just goes to Israel, brings them back kosher, kosher Nutella all the time. Yeah. No, that's stupid. They don't know struggle. Just yeah, just like have a hazelnut and a butter Cadbury. It's the same.
SPEAKER_02And just put it in your mouth at the same time.
What Makes Food Kosher
SPEAKER_02This whole Kashrut business is on my mind because we're discussing Kushroot. Today. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ashamed to admit that I hate Kashroot. Why do you hate it? No, I'm just kidding, I don't. It's just I'm ashamed of it. I don't know much about it. Okay. Beyond the stuff that you learn in primary school, beyond the there's meat, there's milk, you shouldn't have it together. Something, something about an animal's hoof. It's hoof.
unknownHoof?
SPEAKER_02Hoof? I don't know. How do you pronounce hoof?
unknownHoof.
SPEAKER_02Something about its hoof and about it eating food and then vomiting it up again to give it to its kid.
SPEAKER_03It's like everything you need to know.
SPEAKER_02Isn't it?
SPEAKER_03I yeah. Again, you've got like all of the elements, you've mixed them together. I love it. Okay, ask me your kosher question.
SPEAKER_02So what makes food kosher?
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's a good question. There's different um different things make different things kosher. Okay. It's pretty vague. Yeah. I'm gonna keep things as vague as I can, and then I won't get anything wrong because I didn't prepare properly. Because cash it stresses me out. Okay, so animals. Okay, what makes things animals. What kind of animals? So let's land, sea, or um, sky.
SPEAKER_02Let's start with land.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Land animals, you are correct, have to have split hooves and chew their cud. Chewing their gut cud is when they have like multiple stomachs, and part of their digestion process is like regurgitating what they've eaten, eating it again and swallowing it and back and forth. So cows apparently have like four stomachs.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_03Which is what I've always heard from rabbis, but never from scientists. I don't know if it's true.
SPEAKER_02Do you want me to look it up?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, fact check. Fact check. Fact check. Pause the clock, stop the clocks. Keep talking while I look it up. Um, so yeah, so have to have um split hooves and chew their cud. Um and that's the reason why one of the reasons pigs are like, do they have four stomachs? Sloading.
SPEAKER_02Cows don't actually have multiple separate stomachs, but they have one stomach with four distinct compartments. That's four stomachs, that's enough. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, rabbis. You have not failed me today. Um, okay, so yeah, so the split hooves and they chew their cud. Okay. The reason why pigs are one of the most famously non-kosher or halal examples of an animal is because they have split hooves. Right? So visibly from the outside they look as though they could be kosher, but they don't have the chewing their cud part of things, so therefore they're not kosher. Are the animals I'm pretty sure that are the same? Cat no, camels, maybe? I don't know. I can't remember. But pigs are like famously only the split hooves, but they don't chew their cud. Okay. So they don't have four compartments in their stomach. Sure. Okay. I don't know. I I'm not a scientist. Okay. Not a pig scientist. All right. Um, so that's what like that's what makes meat kosher, the animals. Yeah, what about chicken? Chicken, oh, there's a bird. Oh, okay. Of the sky. Okay. Even though they don't fly. Right. There's a list of kosher and non-kosher birds. So that's really easy. You just look it up in the Torah, and if it says it there, you can eat it. If it doesn't say it, you can't eat it.
SPEAKER_02Do you have any idea how they got to that list in the first place? Yeah, God said, write down these birds.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. Wow. There's lots of different theories. Some of them are like the birds that aren't that are listed as not kosher tend to be. I don't know what not. It's not a war bird, but it's things like eagles and vultures, like sort of attack birds. Right. Prey birds of prey. That's what I'm thinking of. Warbirds. Warbirds. So those aren't kosher, but then chickens, dark turkey, or kosher. Okay. There aren't that many birds. And I don't think they've discovered any new birds since what was written in the Torah of the list of things you can't eat.
SPEAKER_02So like rainbow loricates?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I don't know if it's on the list or not. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Wouldn't you just love to get inside of God's brain and be like, what was she thinking when she put those things? Like, why hate so split hooves so much? Or like.
SPEAKER_03So it's also interesting.
Why These Rules Exist
SPEAKER_03There's three different kinds of Jewish law around and mitzvot and all of the things we keep, right? One is we do it because it's historic testimony. So we keep the laws of Pesach because it reminds us of the time in history when we escaped Egypt. So it's connected to that. One of them is Mishbat, is civil law, Mishbatim, okay, which are laws between people that make sense that you would find probably in most organized societies. And the third one is called chok, which just is like we don't know the reason. And so it's things like kashrut. We're not given explicit reason behind why we do it. The reason is God says don't eat these things. And now we're like trying to figure out why, and people are and people say it's it's healthier, right? Apparently, bacon and and pig products carcinogenic or something. Everyone's like, well, God knew it. And then the same with with seafood, right? They're the garbage of the sea because they're along the ocean floor. And everyone's like, well, God knew it. I don't know. I think also it's probably ancient Israelites are a coastal people, or a lot of them are because you know they're on the Mediterranean. And a lot of cultures around them who they were disagreeing with and fighting with were probably eating sea creatures.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And a really big way to distinguish distinguish yourself and separate from people you don't like are the things that you eat, right? And especially in a culture that is so surrounded by community and communal eating specifically, to say I'm not eating at your house because you eat this wrong thing is like a huge thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've noticed that even for the people who aren't religious, who are secular Jews, they still keep certain kashrut um practices because they'd said, well, even if there wasn't God telling us what to do, it could have been that the Israelites were just like, well, that food keeps giving us food poisoning, so we're not gonna get that.
SPEAKER_03I think it's also it's even if you don't believe in God, there is something really important about retaining cultural practice. And and food is the thing that connects us to our ancestors, right? Yeah. So I I think that it is as much an important cultural practice as it is a religious practice, which is why people draw their different lines in different places. I'm willing to go to a regular restaurant and I just won't eat the kosher meat because that's the thing that's important to me, but I'll eat a salad because that's fine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And but for some people that's not enough because there are other things that make things kosher.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So then we get to, we've covered meat, but then we've get we get to this idea that you can't have fish. Oh, sorry. But you mentioned it that the stuff at the bottom of the ocean, like so there's two different things.
SPEAKER_03There's things you can't eat, which is seafood, lobsters, prawns, eel, thing like that. Um, oysters, another example. But the fish themselves have to have fins and scales. Yeah. And so there's lots of different fish that you can figure out if they're kosher
Meat Milk Parev And Waiting
SPEAKER_03or not just by looking at them as fish. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's about it.
SPEAKER_02What about mixing you can have fish with milk, but you can't have meat with milk. Yeah. Because there's something I remember from primary school, it's offensive to cook a mother in a cook a baby in its mother's milk.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's just it's not that it's offensive, it's that's just the way that it's said in the Torah. Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk. Okay. And then the rabbis expand those laws, right? It's not just about one specific goat cooking it in one specific milk, but it's about all meat and milk products should be separate. And then you set up time like limits. So you wait six between three to six hours, usually, between eating meat and then milk. Which is why um like pariv dessert, like dairy-free desserts are so big in the Jewish community. Because if you're if you if you want ice cream after dinner, but you're having steak for dinner, you need a parv ice cream. Okay, so can you explain what pariv is to Parv is gender neutral. So you so you're non-binary. Yeah, you have um chalavi in Hebrew or milchuk in Yiddish, which just means it's dairy, and then you have fleshik or basar Yiddish in Hebrew again, if it's meaty, and then if it's neither of those things, it's pariv.
SPEAKER_02So an example of parv is egg.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Another example of parv is tofu. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Let's play this game. Soy. Name us name something else. Quick. Jelly. Actually, it depends what it's made of. Okay. Because if it's made if it's beef gelatin, then you can't have it because it's made of beef. Right.
SPEAKER_02Trick question. Name something else. I'll tell you. It's a fun game. So, and so you need to wait between three and six hours.
SPEAKER_03You're supposed to wait six hours, and then somewhere along the way, some community started doing three hours, and there's one community, I think they're Dutch, wait one hour. Okay. And they're kind of the the lowest. But it's between usually three and six, is most people.
SPEAKER_02Because that's the amount of time people say it takes for your gut to digest the food.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but it's also like ancient rabbis making this stuff right, you know, or getting it from God.
SPEAKER_02I
Two Kitchens In One House
SPEAKER_02understand. Now, in some houses of really observant people around the world, you'll see that they not only will they not mix milk and meat, they'll have two separate sets of plates, cutlery, sinks, dishwashers.
SPEAKER_03So kosher is the the food you eat has a designated kosher, not kosher status, but also the utensils and the crockery that you use to make it can be kosher and not kosher. And they absorb the fl the flavors. Uh I'm gonna keep doing this a lot, inverted commas, right? It absorbs the the particles of meat or milk if it's you've heated something up on a plate or used it hot.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um, but then it's really funny because heat is also applied to things like onion and garlic. Spicy things are considered heat as well. So if I chop a cold steak on a cutting board, technically that cutting board and that knife aren't meaty. But if I cut the steak and an onion at the same time, the onion's heat particles, spicy particles, cause the meaty particles to stick to the knife and the cutting board. Therefore, all of those things are now meaty.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Your eyes have glazed over halfway through.
SPEAKER_02No, it's just another question that I think I had in the Passover episode as well, which is like, how did we get from God saying you shouldn't cook a kid in its mother's milk to you sh cannot chop an onion with meat and you can, but then you can't, and you need two dishwashers. Like, how did it get?
SPEAKER_03Because we have been discussing things to death for like 2,000 years, and in those discussions, we turn over every hypothetical situation to figure out what to do in situations. So we have multiple books telling us exactly how to live our life from the moment we wake up to the time we go to sleep, and that involves a lot of that time, especially for women historically, has been spent in the kitchen. So it makes sense that there are a lot of rules around what to do in the kitchen. You know? I do, and I'm trying not to judge. But there's also dishwashers are a fairly new invention. Some people say you can use the dishwasher for both meat and milk, but that's only certain communities. Um people say you can use the same oven if you're wrapping all of your food in foil, that's different communities. Every Sfati Ashurazi, there's huge differences between how they keep kosher. But everyone has those fundamental samenesses. You know, it's just like the little details. Otherwise.
SPEAKER_02Shoshana, selfishly, I'm hoping you can answer a question that no one has ever been able to answer.
SPEAKER_03Uh-oh. I do have to say, yeah, this is not a reflection on like what this episode is gonna turn out as. You look like I'm talking cash. You're just staring at me the most blank I've ever seen. It's like you took a gummy before this episode.
SPEAKER_02I did not take a gummy. I think it's the haircut.
SPEAKER_03I think it's You're just distracted by your own haircut. There's not even a mirror for you to be looking. We don't have a monitor. You're just thinking about your haircut. I'm that's all I'm thinking. I just thought I was like, you know, cutting steak on a board, and you're just it's slowly turning into you going, won't won?
SPEAKER_02I'm joking about the haircut. That is, it's all of that stuff. I'm trying I try not to get too judgmental, but I'm just Oh, you just like hate it. People live their whole lives by it.
SPEAKER_03I know. And then people have. Yeah, completely separate dishes. I think there's gonna be a huge change that we see in sort of our generations. I'm kidding, we're the same generation, but like you know, they're not micro-generationally different. People are living in smaller and smaller apartments, so it's not feasible to have two ovens and dishwashers, and it's not feasible to have two of every single dish in your house. So, like I have friends who in their apartment they only have milk, like they only eat dairy things, they don't have any meat unless they go out because they don't have the equipment or the space for it all.
SPEAKER_02It's also very expensive to buy kosher meat.
SPEAKER_03We don't have the houses to fit it in. The cost of kosher food keeps going up and up and up. I think we're gonna see a shift either in people relying on leniencies more than they used to, um, and like sort of doing away with how hardcore a lot of people are, or people are just gonna stop doing it because it's it's just prohibitive sometimes. Like it's really hard as young people.
SPEAKER_02We're almost running out of time for this episode. Oh, what's your big question? You had a big question that Johnny. Which I'm relieved because I'm bored by this episode. Is that relief? Not by you.
SPEAKER_03I'm just I said we shouldn't do cut frut. I didn't want to discuss it.
SPEAKER_02I'm regretting this, but it's important. It's important. And a lot of people listen to this who Look, if you're bored by this episode, leave a review.
SPEAKER_03Or if you have any if you've loved this episode and are really sad that we've spent a lot of it with Tammy just being bored by, just DM me. Message me directly.
SPEAKER_02I'm about to make this episode a thousand times less boring because I'm about to drop a Kashroot bombshell.
SPEAKER_03Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_02And it's a family story.
SPEAKER_03Is this the question you have for me?
SPEAKER_02No, I just thought of it now.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Came back to me. Like muscle memory. Like I'm gonna be angry at you for sharing this? Maybe, yeah. Okay.
A Kosher Butcher Family Bombshell
SPEAKER_02So do you know that I come from a long line of kosher butchers? I didn't know that. Yeah, all the way, my grand my paternal grandfather and his brother started the first kosher butcher in Sydney.
SPEAKER_03A lad or Hadassah? Which one?
SPEAKER_02It was another one. It was the first one.
SPEAKER_03What was it called? Sussman.
SPEAKER_02It was called Susman.
SPEAKER_03Everything about this sounds like you are making it up.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm not. It was first, but those were their comp those came later.
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_02The Sussman's were the first.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So my dad was kosher, kosher, kosher, kosher. Um, when he met my mum, she was not kosher. And she was like, this is too expensive. This is annoying because back then you couldn't just go to Kohl's to get your kosher meat. Yeah. And he was like, nah, like, I can't not be kosher. My dad was the first one to like not be a kosher butcher. He what's the word for when you like chopped? No, you're like, you're he broke the cycle. He broke the cycle of kosher butchers.
SPEAKER_03Of trauma, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then one day he's at an event with my mum. There's a butcher there who's not kosher. And he tells this guy, oh, my parents are kosher butchers, and they're talking about kosher mate. And this guy who's not a kosher butcher said there was a kosher event, kosher catered event. They ran out of meat. They called me to supply the meat. And my mum looked at my dad and said, You see, you don't even know what you're getting is kosher. And so my dad said, Fine, make the change at home, but just don't tell me when you're doing it. Like I can't know when it's happening, but I won't eat kosher.
SPEAKER_03I want to know more about the event that took place kosher.
SPEAKER_02I know. Isn't that a scandal? That is scandalous.
SPEAKER_03Scandal. There was a story in Montreal once of because there's also certain parts of an animal you can't eat. So you're not supposed to eat like the back hind leg. The rump. The rump, right? And there's sort of uh a nerve that runs the way through that you're not supposed to eat. It's really hard to cut around, so you just don't eat like the sort of hind leg. And apparently and you're also not supposed to benefit from non-kosher food, meaning you're not supposed to sell it to anyone else. And there was this huge thing in Montreal years and years ago, I remember hearing about they were selling their rumps to non-kosher butchers or restaurants and things like that. Good on there. And they got in so much trouble for it.
SPEAKER_02I respect that. Anyway, the big question that I have for you, which no one has ever been able to answer.
SPEAKER_03I'll see if I can change that.
SPEAKER_02So you can't cook a kid in its mother's milk, but you can eat a chicken omelette when an egg is technically a chicken miscarriage. Oh, I can answer this. That is more offensive.
SPEAKER_03Chickens weren't considered meat until later on in the fact. So chicken, it used to be that chickens were designated par of. And then for whatever reason, I could not tell you the specifics. But along the way, chicken and bird meat has become become come to be considered meat, like basar or flaish. And so I my answer to you would be that they were just two par of things together. One of them was changed, like that's that's the answer. It's it's seen as like a lesser being type, like a live being type than a than a mammal.
SPEAKER_02So can we make chickens par of again? Can we start a movement? Make chickens par of again.
SPEAKER_03Yes, no, all right.
SPEAKER_02But do you see the logic? Like an egg is it's like a chicken, period.
SPEAKER_03I yeah, I think that it's about, yeah, sort of trying to designate different levels of being and I guess animal intellect, if that makes sense. Right. And I think that even back in the day, rabbis could look at cows and and and feel more kinship to a cow and see it as a more complex being than, say, a chicken or fish.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_03So fish is still part of it as well, right? Chick-like fish isn't considered meat either.
SPEAKER_02You're right.
SPEAKER_03And so I that I think that's a lot to do with it.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it's just that one rabbi formed a connection with a chicken and was like, you are smart. Do you reckon that's how it started?
SPEAKER_03No, I don't think so. Okay. I can't remember the reason. But I also I think that it's really interesting that a lot of animals who we know to be real like we know that elephants are really, really smart. We can't eat elephants. And and octopus are really, really, really smart as well. Sorry that you you shuddered because you hate the tentacles. But also we don't eat the I think that there's maybe something connected to the idea of the complexity of the animal, the complexity of their thought. Gonna get angry vegan emails. All animals are smart, all animals have complex inner loves. How dare you!
SPEAKER_02Do you know any South African vegans?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like probably like one.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03I just in my voice, in my head, like the angry complaining voice is a South African one.
SPEAKER_02We are cutting that out. Why? Because we will lose even more followers.
SPEAKER_03What do you mean? I say that with all the love in my heart.
SPEAKER_02No, you don't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I do. We're cutting that out.
SPEAKER_02Alright.
SPEAKER_03Um, I double dare you to leave it in. I double dog dare you leave it in.
SPEAKER_02Alright, looks like I'm leaving it in. Yeah. It's time for our favorite segment.
Shame In The Shtetl Half Coke
SPEAKER_02Shame in the Steddel.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay, nice. Today's That was ASMR for paper.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. You're welcome. Um, today's screenshot. This is my favorite. Comes not from a Facebook group, but we're branching out to WhatsApp groups.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So this is from a WhatsApp group in a suburb of a state in a country, what we call us.
SPEAKER_03I'm if I get kicked out of this group, I'm leaving the podcast. So we are anonymizing this to the max. This takes place, this may or may not take place in a country, state, and suburb.
SPEAKER_02In a magical land. Okay. And what what's what was the group set up for?
SPEAKER_03The group is set up as a buy-cell swap group. And so you can post anything you have that you want to get rid of from your home, and someone will come and collect it, probably. Sometimes they pay for it, sometimes they'll just take it. Okay. Um, but because they're Jews, it's just that is it a Jewish group? Yeah. Because it's it's so it's a it's anything. Sunglasses, if you have a pair of sunglasses, I have a bag I'm getting rid of, tables, chairs, whatever it is. But then sometimes because it's Jews, people go crazy. So one the other day was like um that someone sent me a photo of was uh like a half jar of cream, like like hand cream recently opened, not very used. Or I've seen ones before that people have shown me of like medication, only one taken out, no longer needed. And I'm like, oh my god. Anyway, this one's my personal favorite that I've seen.
SPEAKER_02What is it?
SPEAKER_03Half bottle of coke free pickup from Anonymous Jewish suburb.
SPEAKER_02Why? Why is someone giving away half a bottle of coke?
SPEAKER_03I love it because it is in fact half, and then there's also a photo attached of half a bottle of coke. I love it because coke for me is one of the things that it goes bad if you don't drink it really. It goes non-fizzy after a while. So it's just it's a tick and time bomb.
SPEAKER_02So you don't think this is a joke?
SPEAKER_03Oh no, this is 1000% serious.
SPEAKER_02I thought it was a joke. I thought someone's trolling this route.
SPEAKER_03No, I've seen before, people have sent me photos of half a tray of chicken cutlets cooked on a barbecue and someone else has taken it. Try a cooked hot dogs. I didn't eat them all at the party. Someone's taken it.
SPEAKER_02Is it a Jewish thing? Because we don't have to be a big thing.
SPEAKER_03One time I went and picked something up from someone's house because of one of these groups, and I think it was it was like a bag of cucumbers that they had bought too many or something, and I was like, Yeah, I'll make some pickles. And then they messaged me, they're like, Hey, I also got too much garlic. Do you want some? So then they just added the garlic in for free.
SPEAKER_02Amazing.
SPEAKER_03I went to their house and just it was on their doorstep. I loved it. It always looks like you're robbing someone, you just like go into their front yard, like, yink, and then walk away. I love it. But they do get crazy. This is crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is absolutely crazy. How do you you don't know if one of the kids in this household hasn't taken a swig straight from the bottle? It's true.
SPEAKER_03That's just the risk that you have to be willing to take in a buy sell swap group, I guess.
Wrap Up And Share Request
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for listening. That's it for today's show.
SPEAKER_03You've been watching andor listening to Asham to Admit with me, Shoshana Gottly Becker, and this person, Tammy Sussman, from a long line of kosher butchers.
SPEAKER_02This episode was brought to you by the Jewish Independent with Aliway Productions. The vocalist in our theme song is Saria L More credits in the show notes. More? More half bottles of Coke in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03Hey, if you enjoyed this episode, share it around and give it a positive review.
SPEAKER_02Send it to the people at DJA Kosha Products.
SPEAKER_03And say, hey, I think you should sponsor this podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much, and see you next week. Bye. Bye.
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