What is a golem? Jewish Mythology

Do you have no idea what a golem is? Are you ashamed to admit you've never seen The Lord of the Rings? Feeling like your Jewish Community might need some extra protection right now? Then this episode is for you. Plus, someone is distraught when a very popular kosher bakery sells out of olive bread ... can a Jewish facebook group save the day? 

This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions 

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The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael 

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Transcript

Shame To Ask Welcome Back

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Shame to ask, shame to admit, got dewy, dewy questions. This is it, this is it. Why is wicked simple are unsure how to ask? We'll open up the books, the ark will open up your cynical heart. No such a thing as a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Dammi and Shashan are here for you. Ashamed to admit.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Ashamed to ask. It's everything you didn't get in Jewish studies class.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Hallo. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

That's me being Dutch.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Is that Holo. Have you been to wherever the Dutch people are from? I always Denmark? Dutch people, and that's Danish. Danish people are from Denmark.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Oh, Dutch is Holland, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Holland, yeah, and Amsterdam is in Holland.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

The Netherlands.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Is it? I think the Netherlands.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

They can't know I'm bad at geography.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, I think Netherlands. So that's why I think Holland is part of Netherlands, or are there a few countries that make up the Netherlands?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Hi, I'm Shoshana Gottlieb Becker. And welcome to Asham to Admit, the Jewish Independent podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

No, did you say you're Shoshana Gottlieb Becker? And I'm Tammy Sussman. Coming to you from Sydney, Australia, home of the world's most attractive and intense community security group. Wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

They're all on a power trip to not let me into a synagogue.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Has that happened to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

No, they always let me in. Because they say, What's your name? And I say, Shoshana Gottlieb. Okay. And then they say, That's the most Jewish name in the world. And then they let me in.

Sydney Security And The Golem Idea

SPEAKER_01 2:02

A few weeks ago, my tiny teeny tiny friend Yvonne was visiting. Yvonne is 65 years old. Teeny tiny. Okay. We're outside the egalitarian service. And this security guard, Jewish security guard, would not let her in. Adayellet? Ada Yellet. A yellet al Shahar. The security guard asked me, How do you know this person? I said, She's my friend. How did you meet? I met at Limwood, the Festival of Jewish Learning. Can I check your bag? They like checked her bag. Did she look suspicious? Anyway, we wouldn't need you. We love you, CSG. We really do, but we wouldn't need you if we had a golem. Isn't that right, Shoshana?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

It's true. I mean, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

I'm ashamed to admit I didn't even know what a golem was until very late in life.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Really?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Two years ago, perhaps. What?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah. You never knew what a golem was?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Never knew it, and we weren't taught about golems.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

You never saw like Lord of the Rings?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Nah. Huh. Not into that. Never read Harry Potter fantasy? Is that considered fantasy genre? Does not do it for me at all. Fascinating. Why is there a golem in Lord of the Rings?

SPEAKER_02 3:23

There's a character called Gollum.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Is he a Gollum?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

No. Like a little like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Then how I'm not gonna lie, I've never seen how is that meant to help me?

SPEAKER_02 3:32

I've seen the first one.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

How's that meant to help me? I don't know. His name's Gollum. I thought you wouldn't be surprised because it was you who once said, yeah, they don't really teach Jewish mythology in high school, in Jewish schools.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah, I guess they don't. But it comes up. Everyone talks about it on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

It's in books. Okay. I didn't grow up with the internet. So how old are you? I I mean I grew up with the internet, but not like chat rooms. Like our chat rooms, you would chat with someone in Canada and you wouldn't even you wouldn't know if they routined a job. Yeah. It was all that. We didn't have photos.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Did you have omegle or were you like out of childhood by then?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I don't know what that is. We had I CQ and M-I-R-C.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

You're just saying and I had A B C D H I J.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Do you get it? I seek you. I seek you.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah. No, so when I was a youngster, they had this thing called Omegle. And it would like chat rooms, it would just connect you to like video chat with random people all around the world. We didn't have videos.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Anyway, it was crazy. I saw way way more than any child should. Um also, our parents did not know what we were doing on the internet. It's really bad. Yeah. Anyway, so you didn't know what golems were. I know. That's what we're saying. Yeah. So what do you want to know about them?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Um, I guess we should let our listeners and viewers know that we're gonna do an episode today on Jewish mythology where focusing on Gollum. But there will be other episodes that we'll do on other types of Jewish mythology because Gollum isn't the only kind, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, there's a few more we could probably dive into.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, but they're on the list. There's a Dib Dibuk, Dibyuk. Nice, Dibuk, Dibuk.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Dibyok, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Dibyok. Um, what else?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

A Dibuk, Shadim.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

We already did Lilith, which counts as mythology. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Okay, so we'll we'll get to those in other episodes, but in this episode, we're focusing on Golem. Okay. Who always makes me hungry, reminds me of shortbread. Yeah. Yeah. Meta Clay. Yeah. Um, I love the Gollum. So much so that aren't you doing a PhD in Gollum?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

That's my brother.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Oh. What's your PhD in?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

I'm not doing a PhD.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

You don't know anything about doing a master's, you go to uni.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I'm doing my master's of teaching. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

My you yeah.

Finding Golem In Jewish Texts

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I knew your brother was doing stuff about Gollum, and so I thought, wow, both children. No, just I'm just a fan. Oh, okay. I'm just a fan. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Um, so golems are really interesting because they kind of have, I don't know, origins in Jewish text, but then also not really. And so when you start looking, if you're like, where do I start? Where do where do you think Jews start when they're looking into things? The Torah. Nice. So you look not in the Torah. Then you then you look in the Tanakh, right? Because we've done the Jewish bookshelf. We know what's the Tanakh again? Remind me.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

The Tanakh is the compilation of three bits. There's the five books of Moses.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

That's the Torah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, there's prophets.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, that's in the VM.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

And then there's the teachings, the writings. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I think we're gonna start quizzing you about past episodes to see what you remember. Yeah. So fantastic. So we find the word golem or the root golem one time in the entire Tanakh, which makes it one of my favorite things in the world. A hapax logomenon. What is a hapax logomenon? Fantastic question. Thank you so much. I set you up for it. A hapax logomenon is a word that appears one single time in any canon of work. And so hapax logomana are uh is a word that features one time in the Tanakh. My favorite hapax logomana is um the word gvina, which means cheese. Yeah. It's found a single time in the entire Tanakh. And we we figured out what it means because it's used later on in Mishnah. Right? What's the Mishnah again?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

The Mishnah is the writing down of the oral law.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Wow, I'm an amazing teacher. Really? Oh my god, yeah, that's correct. Yes. So the rabbis use the word gvinah for cheese um in the Mishnah, which is a slightly different kind of Hebrew, right? It's Mishnahic Hebrew, it's a bit newer than you know the ancient biblical Hebrew. So anyway, so that's a sidetrack. Golem is a hipax logomon, and it's only used a single time in the entire Tanakh. And it's used in in psalms, in Tehilim, so it's used in poetry. And they figure out what it means, what it means, what it means based on like um Aramaic. There's a similar Aramaic word, and basically it means unformed limbs or unformedness. In modern Hebrew, apparently, allegedly, Gollum now means um embryo or cocoon or pupa because it's like a it's a a being that is unformed that has the potential for life, which I think is interesting. I'm getting Frankenstein vibes. Oh my god, Frankenstein's gonna come up. Okay. Oh my god, you read my show notes. No, I didn't. Okay, Frankenstein will come up. I promise. So Gollum, yeah. So Gollum appears one time in the entire Tanakh, kind of later on in Tanakh. It means unformed, unfinished, but there's clearly still potential for life, right? That's important. And then it appears again in Midrash. What's midrash, Tammy?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

That's the fanfic.

Talmud Golem And Lost Speech

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, it's rabbinic storytelling to help explain other stories. Um, so it appears in um in Midrash, and it and it says that Adam was the first golem. Adam was a golem, that like it lists all these stages of creation, and Adam was a golem as he was formed from dust, and then God like blew a soul into his body, and then he became a human. So in Vikra Rabbah, which is the in the midrash. I've lost my words today, I'm so sorry. But in the in the midrash, Adam is a golem. So now we're seeing, okay, so it's about being made from earth, but it's without a soul. We're getting a hint of maybe what a golem is gonna be. Then it comes again, it's there's a couple of other uses in different places. I'm gonna skip all those because it's kind of boring. But then it comes up again in the Talmud. Tammy, what's the Talmud?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Oh, the Talmud is the there's writing, and then there's writing around it, rabbinic commentary around it, and then like a border of different um commentary on the laws. You're a visual learner because you can see what it looks like.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah. So the Talmud is a compendium of discussion around the Mishnah that the rabbis have been having across space and time up until about the 5th century CE is when it's fully put together. Um, so in the Talmud, there's a story that Rava, who was one of the rabbis, builds a golem to try and trick his friend Rabbi Zera. And he sends this golem off to meet him, and he tries to engage in conversation with the golem, asks him a bunch of questions, but the golem can't answer back. And therefore, Rabbi Zera's like, you were made by one of my friends, like piss off, kind of is what he says, right? So we're trying to like piece together what a golem is according to Jewish myth understanding. In this scenario, a golem is this humanoid creature that lacks the ability to talk, right? Because Rabbi Zera keeps asking him questions. This golem questions, the golem can't answer, and that's how Rabizera knows that he's man-made and not a human, but still looks human enough that um that that could pass as a human person, right? The only thing different is that it's the lack of speech.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Um, so that's what it is in its humward. It's this humanoid creature that's brought to life by, and it's also, it appears in a longer tractate about like necromancy. And so it's about bringing the dead back to life, and then it talks about this creature that you can create or that the rabbis can create through mystical understanding of Torah. Is that what necromancy means? No, necromancy is bringing dead bodies back to life. Okay. I can tell you haven't read Harry Potter before. Um, so that's like that's what it appears in the Tumblr. Then we skip forward a little bit, and then we have lots of stories about golems in Europe.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

And so you have um legends in Spain in the 11th century where they were building golems, female, female golems to help with housework. Right? So all of a sudden the golem isn't just a thing that rabbis can make, but it's also something that you use to your advantage, like a helper.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

And so you're saying you get these stories, but the stories in their Jewish stories.

Europe Legends And Helper Golems

SPEAKER_02 12:33

They're Jewish stories, sort of told after certain rabbis' deaths. It's almost like these rabbis are so amazing. I'm gonna tell you about their life. And also he was so amazing that he could create a humanoid creature using God's name and bring it to life using all of the secret mysticism of the Torah. It's kind of like almost the height of you know, this cabbalistic thought. I was about to drop the K-word. Yeah, yeah. It's it's because it's it's as close as a human can get to God is to create a humanoid kind of creature. But all these in all these stories, the the golem can't talk, right? That's the kind of the thing that sort of sets it apart. Anyway, so you've got lots of stories coming out of Spain about how um they're building female golems to help in the kitchen, which is kind of gross. Then you've got this story that's come out of, I think it's in Chelm. Did I write it down? Yeah. There's a guy named the Balsham of Chelm, and he creates a golem. Who wears Chelm? Chm is just a town in like Poland. Chelm is actually really famous because there's lots of folk tales out of Chelm. Have you heard of Chm? Yeah, from you, from your t-shirt. So Chm is a the town of idiots. Yes. Um, which I love anyway, but it's also a real town, and the folk stories, it is thought the folk stories about this town of fools started because actually there was a really famous yeshiva there, and like it's a university town, and so it's a town of smart people, and so they started making jokes about the town of idiots, and then it sort of turned it to its own, like this whole thing. Okay. So there was a really famous rabbi in in Helm, and it said that he created a golem to help him with the hat, like with the gardening and sort of all of this other work to be done, and then he he was worried it would get too strong, and so he decommissioned it and sort of put it to sleep, and then we didn't hear from it again.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Ah.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

And so there's all these stories that sort of pop up across different parts of Europe, right? So like Eastern Europe Ashkenazi stories, but then also Sephardic stories, um, different focuses on each story. So sometimes it's about, you know, that the Kabbalistic focus of figuring out how to emulate God and bring things to life, and then also it starts to become about protection and things like that. But the most famous golem, the one that we love, the one that there's a fo let me hold it up.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

If you're watching this, if you're not watching, jump on YouTube or Spotify, if Shanna is holding up a tapestry.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

If you are watching, or you're not watching, if you are watching Oh, sorry, what did I say? No, no, no. If you're not watching, do you want to just describe it to them? Okay. What's happening right now?

The Golem Of Prague Explained

SPEAKER_01 15:06

So you're holding up a little, it's not a tapestry. What's that what are they called? Little cross stitch. It's a cross stitch of a well, I'd say it's a golem, but it looks like a marshmallow man holding a lollipop. And it has the word a Hebrew word on it, Amat or something?

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Emmet, yeah. Emmet. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Okay.

Manuscripts Frankenstein And Modern Myth

SPEAKER_02 15:29

That Hebrew teacher was amazing. The one who's mean to me. Okay, so this is a golem. Yeah? This is the most famous golem story that most golems today are based on is the Gollum of Prague. And this is the shift from the Gollum being the sort of helpful, does my laundry, does my housework kind of creature, to the golem is a figure that protects us. All right. And the golem is a figure that is essentially a gigantic bodyguard that I can employ and create, and then my town will be safe from pogrom. So um, there's all of these stories that the Maharol of Prague, which is a really famous rabbi in Prague, he created this golem, and there's all these varying factors in this in the different tellings. In some tellings, he writes the word Emmet on its forehead, Emmet meaning truth. Okay. And when he writes Emmet, it brings it to life. And then he is able to take away the Aleph because it's made out of clay. So he can like scrub out the Alef. And when he does that, Emmet turns into a met, which means death, and then the Gollum goes to sleep. In other stories, he writes down a very long name of God that we aren't supposed to know because only the highest mystics know this name of God. And he writes down the name of God on this little scroll and he puts it in the golem's mouth and it comes to life and it has the ability to help people. And then when he wants to decommission it, he takes it out of like the little paper out of its mouth and then it goes to sleep. In different stories, every shabbat he would take the paper out of the mouth and make sure it goes to sleep and then bring it back to life again. And there's different versions of why he eventually stops bringing the golem to life and he sort of decommissions it for good. One of the stories is that the golem falls in love and then it ends badly, and before it can go on this like murderous rampage, he decommissions it. Um, in other versions, he's scared that the golem is gonna break Shabbat for some reason, and so he decommissions it. Um, in other versions, it goes on a murderous rampage, so he decommissions it before like after the fact. Anyway, there's all these different stories. Um, but there's no like historical record of the golem. There's just this sort of these stories that we hear about. Um, there was a rabbi who came along later. So the Maharal lives in I don't know, like the 15th or the 16th century. And then we start hearing these stories in the 19th century from this one rabbi who I'm gonna read his name because I always forget Yudel Rosenberg. Yudel. Yudel Rosenberg. Yudel. Yudel. Um, is a rabbi who's born in like the 1890s or like 1870s or something, right? It's like in terms of Jewish history, he's a modern fella, right? And he says he finds this manuscript and then he writes a book based on a manuscript that he found in the Shule, and it's the story of the Maharal of Prague and this golem. In actuality, what's probably happened, and this is what a lot of the modern academic stuff is saying, that Judah Rosenberg wanted to be an author, came up with a really good idea that was probably inspired by the rise of science fiction, i.e., like the first science fiction ever written was Frankenstein. Like Mary Shelley invented sci-fi with Frankenstein. So he's a prolific reader because he's smart. He's also a rabbi. He knows that being an author and a rabbi is not really like a done thing. And so the way to be religious and a rabbi and also write a book is saying, hey, I found a manuscript. Do you want to hear this story? I have to write. And then he wrote these stories about the golem.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Good figure.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

He done in like the 30s, which is why I say he's like fairly modern when it comes to Jewishness. Yeah. Um, yeah, and so that's the golem. So the golem is this figure that protects Jewish communities. Also, from what I've pieced together, what I can understand, the Maharal, who supposedly built the Gollum, lived in what we could describe as a fairly peaceful time of Jewish history in Prague. And so it it wouldn't have needed a golem. Whereas other people who are writing it, Judah Rosenberg is writing it in a time that might be a bit more pogromy and a bit more dangerous. And so it makes sense that he might want to write a story about this magical being that protects us. Um, I love the golem. And then now it's just sort of like blown up in in Jewish pop culture, I guess, and internet culture. Right. But there's lots of different stories written about it. You can go, there's kids' books. Um there's like, I don't know, you can buy lots of little figurines. If you go to Prague, oh, that's the other thing. So it's the best part of the story. In the story, the Maharal decommissions it one last time, and he puts the golem to rest in the attic of his shawl. And that is a real shawl, right? You can go, I've been there. Wow. It's amazing. It's called the Old New Shaw. There's like five synagogues in Prague that you can go to. This one's called the Old New One. The old new one. Yeah. Okay. The old new shule. And it's the oldest shawl in Prague, right in this area of Prague. And you can see the attic in like from the outside, the door in the attic where the Gollum is supposedly asleep and lying. Because there's all of these other stories, you're not supposed to go to the attic because it's like a holy place because the golem lives up there.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And people like in general, like people dwelling you're into.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

No, just for this stuff, okay. For the golem. And if you try to go, you'll die. And so then there's all these stories of like the Nazis invaded Prague, and one of them tried to go up the ladder, and he died and fell down because of the holiness of the golem. But then when you go and look at the shawl, the ladder to get to the to the attic is on the outside of the shawl, like 10 feet in the air. Like you can't possibly. Of course, he fell and died. He didn't have a proper scaffold. Like it was a dangerous climb and he fell. Anyway, I've so apparently the golem is still in the attic. Who knows? I love it.

Pogroms Antisemitism And Australia

SPEAKER_01 21:26

My biggest takeaway from that story is I love how you've invented a new adjective called pogromy. Yeah, pogrommy. Yeah. Do you feel like we're living in a pogromy time right now?

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Oh, interesting.

unknown 21:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Mmm. A lot of people will be angry with that response.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Pogroms are like state-sanctioned violence against Jews. And people might be angry about this as well. Like in Australia, unfortunately, Jews have like never been safer in terms of government support. Right.

unknown 21:59

Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

What you know what Australia said before the Holocaust? The Germans were trying to get rid of the Jews, and the Australian um at the Evian, this is some history for you. At the Evian conference, where Hitler was like, I got a bunch of Jews I want to get rid of. Do you want to take them from me? Australia said the Australian delegate said Australia doesn't have a race issue, and we are not looking to import one, and then denied Jewish entry to Australia. So like Australia's like compared to that, pretty fucking great. We're doing great. And yes, so socially things have shifted, but pogroms are like state-sanctioned violence. Right. Right? Like, we don't have that. Like, unfortunately. Like, no, we just we don't have that. And yes, it's hard to be Jewish. It's hard to be visibly Jewish. And I say a lot, actually, I say this all the time. Religious people bear the brunt of anti-Semitism. And I think it's something that young, more modern Jews are starting to deal with because they feel like they have to put their muggins of it away. Right. But but religious Jews have been dealing with this their whole lives. If you wear a kippah regularly, you've been verbally like the first time I experienced it was I was five and my dad was wearing a kippah in like on Bundai Road and got verbally abused by someone, right? Like the more religious people are feeling it, and like I'm I'm gonna sound so cynical, but like I'm sorry that you're finally starting to feel anti-Semitism. That's always kind of existed in a society, but the government isn't the one doing that. And we are not experiencing pogroms in Australia at this point in time.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

It is not pogrommy at the moment. It's not pogrommy It's not pogrommy. All right. They're not pogromming. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah I didn't expect to go on like a whole diatribe about anti-Semitism in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

I didn't know I was gonna bring up the Evian conference.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

I feel like is the Evian Conference does it have anything to do with Evian water?

SPEAKER_02 23:53

I'm assuming the same place in Europe.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Is it the Netherlands? Is Evian? No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Is it like Switzerland? Oh no, let me look it up.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Fact check. Pause. Pause the clocks. Alright, we're gonna just look up, we're just gonna have a brief geography fact check, and then we're gonna get to our favorite segment.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Oh, it's France.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Oh, Evan's. I was close.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

I said Switzerland. That's they speak French there.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Evian.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Alright, so uh Anyway, so that's the Gollem. Any other questions about the Golem? I kind of just accepted everything at face value.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

I accept everything you say at face value.

Why Golems Became Pop Culture

SPEAKER_02 24:38

No no no questions about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Um what are people saying? You said it's like really big in pop culture. Obviously, we exist in different internet circles.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

I don't know, people just like it.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Why?

SPEAKER_02 24:55

The lebubification of the Wollem, you know?

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Did you just think of that now?

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Lebubification?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

You can throw effication on the end of any word to make it a thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Okay, so it's just it's trendy.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah. I think it's people want fun iconography for their religion. I also think that there's something secular about folklore, even though the golem is steeped in religiousness, right? It's God's name that gets put in the mouth, it's a rabbi who makes it, it protects, you know, Jewish community, it's based in a short, all that stuff. To be a fan of the folklore, it's still not tied to a religious text in any way, and it's not asking for belief in a system or God. And so I think that young people kind of like fuck with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Um, but then also it's just fun, it's cool, it's like fun to talk about. It's cute to draw and make cross stitches of, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Especially in that form.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah. Yeah. It's cute each. Especially when it looks cute. And then you go to Prague and then you can just buy all of these like little golem figurines. Can you? Yeah, yeah. They sell like a it's like a tourist trap. They sell like little golems everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I kind of hate that.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I love it. I have like five of them.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Um, I hate when they turn when like the countries that were or cities that were anti-Semitic, then take our culture and turn it into touristy things, the souvenirs they can sell. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Prague has kind of always liked Jews.

unknown 26:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Have you been to Prague? No. I'm getting that. I made that I made that statement. I don't know how true that is in terms of like historically how they treated their Jews, but if you go to Prague, all you see is Franz Kafka, who is buried in a Jewish cemetery. Like one of like the most famous Jews, I would say. Right. Um, and Prague is obsessed with Franz Kafka. There you go. Obsessed. So, like, there's one Jew they like.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Okay, Prague is in Czech Republic. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Did you have to look that up?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

No, I just always get it confused with Budapest. That's Hungary. Yes.

Shame Segment The Shabbat Bread Auction

SPEAKER_02 26:57

That's where I'm from. Hungary, not Budapest. What are we calling it this week?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Um, what do you you can choose this time?

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Wait, let's call it shame.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Just that. That's it? Just shame. Shame, yeah. Okay, today on shame. Someone has posted in a Facebook group, a Jewish Facebook group, an image of an olive bullis. I don't know what that is actually. Bullis? I think it's just like olive bread.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

I think it's the sourdough.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Okay. Um you read it, I'm gonna fact check. Alright. Someone has posted a picture of what appears to be olive sourdough. And they've written in the comment, hi. Sorry, and they've written in the caption, hi. Unfortunately, Zelda was sold out of olive bullers, and we're I think it's bowls. Bowls?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Well, okay, so a bowl is French meaning ball. And it's a traditional shape of French bread resembling a squashed bowl, and it's where the word boulangerie comes from, which is a bakery. Yeah, boule boulangerie, so it's a bull. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Hi, unfortunately, Zelda was sold out of olive bull, and we desperately want one for our Shabbat table tonight. If you are willing to auction one off, please name your price below. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

I just think that like we're so close to returning to a barter-based system in some areas of the Jewish community. Like, why are you buying the bull? Like, you should offer a a chicken for it. A pot of soup.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Have you ever been to Zelda?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Yeah, I have it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Bakery. So for our people, our listeners, our viewers who do not know what Zelda Bakery is. It's a small, it's not kosher, is it? It is kosher. Oh, it's small kosher bakery in a dewy part of Melbourne. And that's what that's what the the government calls it.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah. A dewy part of Melbourne. Yeah, I know. Have you tried it?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

I've been, yeah, I've been to Zelda, but I haven't tried the olive bowl specifically. What have you had there?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I've had different pastries. They were really good.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah, they are really good.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Maybe they'll sponsor us. So Zelda. So for the people say Zelda. No, I'm scared of the owner.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Why? I don't know them. Zelda, sponsor us.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Please. The owner? I think she's a little bit similar to you in that, like, I can't get a read on her. Like, I don't know whether she finds me endearing or can't stand me.

unknown 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

A peek into your psyche.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

So can we talk about this post? Do we shame the person posting it or do we like their initiatives?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I shame their approach. If you want a loaf of bread, you better offer me a different food in return for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

You know, give me give me a hala. Give me, again, like a pot of chicken soup. I want bartering.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

No.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

I don't want it. I don't want just money for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

That whoever's gonna give it to them is gonna have to give up a carbohydrate. You have to offer the same thing. That's kind of like when I was a kid and I'd ask my mum for a Nutella sandwich and she'd say, here's a Vegemite one, because she thought because they're both brown, it's like the same thing, where it's two completely different genres.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

I think that like the No, I just I don't think so. You don't? I think that it's whatever the other person is willing to sell it for. It's what they need. Okay. If they've got two bowls, they don't need one of them, that's why they're willing to give it up. Right. Therefore, they don't necessarily need another carbohydrate, but maybe they need Shabbos candles. They ran out of Shabbos candles, I know. Okay. It's not that they have the same value or worth, it's that it has the same value or worth to the person who's selling it. I understand. Their bartering system. Okay. Give me like a little goat or something. I don't know.

Ratings Credits And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 31:14

What I thought we could do for our outro is wing it.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I thought that would be fun.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I don't know. Okay, but you have to say all of the things.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Okay. That's it for today's episode of Asham to Admit, a Jewish independent podcast. You've been listening to your co-hosts, me, Tammy Sussman. And me, Shoshana Goli Becker.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

If you've enjoyed today's episode, give us a rating or a comment down below.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

The person who helped us create today's episode is Alex from Aliweight Productions.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

We should not wing these.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

And the person who sung the intro song is Saria L, and there are more credits in the show notes. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Bye everyone. And see you next week.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

See you later.