Ashamed to Admit

Jewish Matchmaking - taboo or the norm?

• The Jewish Independent • Season 4 • Episode 18

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Matchmaking … for some Australian Jews it’s the norm and for others it’s still taboo. In this episode, Tami & Shoshana enlighten each other on the practises in  religious and secular Jewish communities. Plus, they unpack an amateur matchmaker’s first attempt in a Jewish facebook group. 

This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions 

You can watch the full episode on YouTube

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The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael @iamsarayael


Welcome And The No Dumb Questions Rule

SPEAKER_00

A shame to ask, ashamed to admit, got dewy, dewy questions. This is it, this is it. Why is wicked simple or unsure how to ask? We'll open up the books, the ark will open up your cynical heart. No such a thing as a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Tammy and Shoshana are here for you. Ashamed to admit.

SPEAKER_01

Ashamed to ask. It's everything you didn't get in Jewish studies class. Hello. I have to read this because I Yeah, read it. These are the lines that Tammy wrote for me. Hello. You're listening to your favorite Jewish Australian podcast, Ashamed to Admit, presented by the Jewish Independent.

SPEAKER_02

I'm retired catch Shoshana Gottlieb Becker. You are, and I'm retired matchmaker Tammy Sussman.

SPEAKER_01

You want me to ask you about being a retired matchmaker, don't you?

SPEAKER_02

I knew that you were going to say that I had told you to ask me about being a retired matchmaker.

SPEAKER_01

I knew that you knew that you were so predictable. I didn't say I said, do you want me? I think it was more that like you purposefully called yourself a retired matchmaker. So you want me to ask why so why are you retired?

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Firstly, because it was people are just unreliable. I was getting text messages from people saying, hey, my friend's son would really like to meet someone. He's gay. Do you have any friends who are also gay? And I was like, all right, I'm gonna need some more information. I'm not just gonna match them just because they're gay. Here's my number, reach out to me. And then that person would never follow up, or I would reach out to someone else who I thought might be appropriate. And by the time the got the other person on board, then the first person would just ghost me. I was like, it's just there was a lot of disrespect.

SPEAKER_01

I have never really tried to match make anyone. There was one time on like youth group camp. It was like one of my I think it was like my second, like it was like the big summer camp. It was from people all over Australia. And there were there was like a guy and a girl, and I was I was like standing around with them one day because I was like kind of half in charge of this camp. So like I was not like doing the hands-on the ground stuff, I was like overseeing. I was standing near them and they had like weird vibes. And then he walked away and I was like, You guys like have intense vibes? She's like, Oh my god, we like went on a single date, but like I'm not so sure. We've been chatting, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, leave it with me. And then I went to him and I was like, hey, we're out of water. Like, we need to do a calls run. Someone said that you have your license. Do you mind going? And he's like, Yeah, sure. And I was like, Oh, you'll need someone to help. She's free. So I started like orchestrating because she was like, I'm not sure. I just need time to like spend with him. So I started orchestrating time for them to like spend together, married with kids. Really? Yeah. I don't think they know who I am anymore. Like, like we don't have anything to do with like that camp was the only time we had anything to do with each other. But I like facilitated their early like chatting. I think that counts. But I don't have anything else that counts. So I because that's the thing, like I'm not actively setting people up, but I'm manipulating situations that cause people to spend time together.

SPEAKER_02

Like that's a diff, but there's a difference. There is a difference, but I think yours. Because it's the subtle one. I like the subtlety. Yeah. Yeah. You're still morally superior to most people for doing that.

Accidental Setups That Actually Worked

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so about 15 years ago, I was living in a flat in Bondi and I was looking for a new flat mate. And I needed mail just for the like energy vibes, whatever. So I said, Hey, I'm looking for my Ross from Friends. I'd never really watched Friends, but I knew enough about it to know that I needed a Ross, like someone who was a bit quiet, like Neb, you know, sweet. So I got my Ross, and then a few months later, I was at a sucker, sukkot dinner, and there was a single gal there in her late 20s, and she was like, Yeah, I'm looking for love. And I was like, What are you looking for? And she's like, I'm actually I'm looking for a bit of a Ross. So I was like, light bulb moment, set her up with my flatmate. Um, they dated for a little bit, they broke up, they got back together. Now they have three kids.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

Why Secular Jews Feel Matchmaker Shame

SPEAKER_02

Then another couple. Is this just like Tammy and Trishana's best matchmaking hits? No. Today's episode is all about matchmaking, which is still a taboo subject in the secular Jewish community.

SPEAKER_01

Again, this is when we come from wildly different worlds. Because when I was reading all of your questions and I'm like, ooh, like taboo, what's this? It's as common as sneezing. Like it's literally an inevitability in my parts of the world.

SPEAKER_02

In your parts of the world. In mine, not so much. There's a sense of shame that people carry around meeting their significant others through professional matchmakers.

SPEAKER_01

Is this a is this like an up-to-date feeling? Yeah. Because what is app dating if not matchmakers? That's the irony. No one has any. It used to be that you had hang ups meeting through online dating, but no one has that anymore. No one has that anymore.

SPEAKER_02

They still like I was literally spoke to someone a year ago and I said, Oh, how did you meet? And she was like, This is a little bit embarrassing, but we actually met through a matchmaker.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe it's like a sense of shame that you you have to like pay a service to do it for you. 100%. But it's like it's like it's normal. Yeah. It's how it's been done for a long time. Sorry, one second. Let me just take a little sip. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I'm keeping this in because it's important for our viewers and listeners to know that Shoshana Gottlieb Becca has 33.9,000 followers on Instagram. Are you my mum? At the time of recording, and yet she is still a human being who coughs.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sometimes. Actually, sometimes I've used my my Instagram to try and help people find people. I've posted my brother several times, but hock mod. Yeah. Problem is, it's I have such an international audience, it's always Americans being like, Well, he moved to Denver. And I'm like, no, he won't move to Colorado. And then Colorado's pretty cool. No. And then I've done it before. I've like, I've done a few series of just like people send me some pics.

SPEAKER_02

But that's me, people I know and that like can talk a bit about, you know. Question: Has your brother given you permission? No.

SPEAKER_01

I think here lies the problem. No. He won't let me post photos of him much. Uh-huh. And so sometimes if it's a nice photo, I'm like, I'm posting this.

SPEAKER_02

He's so cute.

SPEAKER_01

He's such a sweetie. If you know anyone, you can sort of set him up. He doesn't listen to this, so it's fine. He can't get mad at me. Okay. If you find him his bisher, my mum will finally learn your name. She will like you.

Reading A Mum’s Matchmaking Post

SPEAKER_02

That is enough. That is enough for me. I'm onto it. Okay. So today's episode, we're gonna do something a little bit different. Different. We usually end our episodes with everyone's favorite segment, Shame in the Sheddl, which our audience loves. Thank you to our listeners and viewers who have sent me screenshots from cooked Facebook WhatsApp groups. This post, which comes from a Jewish mother's group.

SPEAKER_01

In a city in a in a country somewhere. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's long, so we're gonna take turns reading it. We're gonna leave out some identifiable information, but it was posted in 2020. Yeah. I thought of we're doing this because it's out of date. The reason why we're starting today's episode with this post is because there is so much to unpack, not just about matchmaking, but also just about, I guess, ideals within the Jewish community, within this city, in this country. But I feel it's pretty worldwide.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. I'll start. You start. Hi all. This is a long shot heart emoji. Specifically, and I want to make this very clear. It's the heart emoji that has echoes, the pink heart that has like echoes off the top. The one that's a weird choice. Yeah, weird choice. Yeah. I'm writing this due to a request of a close family friend. She has a 32-year-old son who is currently single, and she's desperate for him to meet a quirky but nice Jewish girl. Okay, so already I think I've always skipped over this part. This person has no autonomy in being posted in this group. It's his mother's friend. Yep. Overview. Hang on. She's desperate. Desperate. And also for him to meet a quirky but nice Jewish girl, which we can unpack. Quirky has it's a huge flag for me in terms of how other people describing other people as quirky. Same. Do you want me to keep going? Yes, then we'll go back to that word. Overview. He is a genius in IT, has a great, well-paid job. He loves cooking and is always tinkering away in the kitchen. He is a passionate city dweller by personality, and see change to a countryside location is not for him. He has traveled abroad and will would like to travel more once it's allowed because it's COVID. He enjoys going out to eat with friends, catching bands play and comedy shows, etc. So far describing an average human being who likes to spend time with friends and go to concerts and travel.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I'll take over from here. He just recently acquired a kitten that he's besotted with.

SPEAKER_01

He's a cat lady. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Jewish observance-wise, he's entirely secular. Um, in his day, he did go to a Jewish preschool. And I'm hoping that the right person he may be might be I'm hoping the right person might be open-minded somewhat. Okay. Next part.

SPEAKER_01

Some hiccups. He is quite short, like probably 5'5, and a small guy in build, which he sadly feels is impacting his marketability to the opposite sex. Based on my knowledge of his previous relationships, I'm thinking he is looking for an out-of-the-box girl, someone who has a variety of interests and causes she is passionate about, is maybe nerdy, smart, creative, playing musical instruments, enjoys trying different cuisines, loves learning new languages, traveled to new lands as well as short strips outside of Sydney. I'm sure as always there is more. He is not the type of guy who is interested to meet someone by the alcohol section at a party or based on looks only, actually, it won't fly at all. If you can think of someone suitable, please be in touch. I'd love to help out, but matchmaking is not my forte yet. So much to unpack. Oh my god. Firstly, that there are 40 comments on this. So clearly there are a bunch of quirky, not like other girls. All the mothers of quirky other girls who are interested.

Quirky, Height, And Dating Double Standards

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Okay, can we go back to the beginning? Yeah. Alright.

SPEAKER_01

Which part? Forget my part. You don't describe work in the kitchen as tinkering away. Are you building a robot in your kitchen sink? Come on. That's weird.

SPEAKER_02

That's the weirdest part of this whole thing for you.

SPEAKER_01

No, the weirdest part for me is that like describing two perfectly average people, but because for some because okay, I think that when people use quirky, they either mean eccentric or they mean no social skills. No or not good looking. Yeah. Because this person is described to average people. This is a person who is he works in IT, he likes to go traveling, he likes photography, he likes going to concerts, right? He's a cat person. Cat person. Yeah. She is smart, creative, plays a musical instrument, likes eating food, learns new languages, and also likes to travel. But she's described that as an out-of-the-box girl. In this scenario, out of the box just means she's she's not like a hottie with a body. Okay. You know what I mean? And I think like this person is defining normal as a good-looking, boring person, and everyone else is weird or quirky.

SPEAKER_02

I see this completely differently to you. How do you see it? Because I was once a highly marketable person in the community. Let me rephrase that. I was once a marketable person. No, because people would see me as an out-of-the-box person because I did not study psychology or education.

SPEAKER_01

No, I think, again, I think you're out of the box because you're not like the cookie-cutter regular. Yes. Right? Yes. But that to me is also like a non-boring person.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, but people would always say to me, I've got this guy for you, because back then people just didn't care to inquire about, hey, what actually are you into? And they would say, He's quirky or he's a little bit eccentric. And what I came to realize after going on these dates with these people is that they had no social skills. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's what they meant for quirky or eccentric. I mean, it does say that he's interested, he's not the type to meet someone in the alcohol section of a party. Yeah. Okay. Lol. Lol.

SPEAKER_02

I think there's a lot going on. There is. I think what she's done well is she's acknowledged that he has a cat. I think it's important for people to know whether someone's a cat or dog person. If you're allergic to cats, you're out.

SPEAKER_01

I think she's trying to show that he's paternal. Ah. He's besotted with his cat. Okay. Like one would be with a newborn.

SPEAKER_02

Right. All right. The thing that she says, which I think is admirable that she's mentioned it. Height. And that's his height. But I think as a community, we should feel shame about the fact that we perceive shorter men of smaller stature as not quote, air quotes, marketable, marketability. Even though everyone's dad is some short guy. Well, I think that's part of the problem, maybe. But no, I just hate that. I hate that find it really annoying when bald baldness or short statured men are considered less than. I agree.

SPEAKER_01

However, how am I gonna say this without say sounding like a man-hating lesbian? I I like I don't think anyone should be judged for their looks in that way. Yes. But I do think I know so many guys who look like feet, but are then like she's too fat. Yes. Fuck teeth, don't want it. Yeah. And until you are willing to call out the misogyny at play when it comes to what women look like in Jewish dating scenes, I frankly don't care if you feel bad about being short and bald. Okay. Unless you're actively doing something to stop it for everyone and not just for you because it makes you sad, you don't get it right. Like, I'm sorry. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I agree. In a perfect world, no one gets judged for their looks. But in the world we currently live in, men still do hold a majority of the power. Yeah. Like you're just not, you're not, you're not gonna get me to feel bad for it. Yeah. All right. You've hit the now. And I think the thing is, is that like when you hear dating stories, it's like like there's I I follow or I see on Instagram a bunch of people who are like in the shirk world, right? In that matchmaking, the religious world. Shiddoch means for our non-Jewish. Shiruch is a is like a a setup, the setup system.

SPEAKER_02

And so it's a Yiddish word, shiruch.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if it's like it comes from Aramaic or biblical Hebrew or Yiddish. It's like somewhere in between. It's like a Jewy word. Yeah. Um, the shirk system is like the matchmaking system. But if I set you up with a shirduch, like that's the person you're getting set up with. So it functions in different ways. Anyway, it's always these young women who are like, again, not stick thin, a bit older, you know, maybe 26, 27 instead of 22. Um, and they're complaining. They're like, you're setting me up with third-rate guys, and all of their comments are like, well, if you want such a fat bitch, then like you'd get a good partner. So it's like, and like women aren't allowed to call it out, but then you're allowed to call the women out for not being how you think they are. Okay. I think those are the bigger things at play. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And the secular version of that, which is still happening because I did some research, yeah, is that it is totally fine if a man has slept with a whole bunch of people, but if a Jewish or secular Jewish woman has, then she's considered like not really maritable, like someone you just fuck around with but don't marry.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't think that's just in the Jewish or that. That's like the rest of the world, too. Slut shaming is as old as time. Yeah. As we've established in previous episodes.

Matchmaking In Torah And Pop Culture

SPEAKER_02

And it's, yeah, the Jewish community is not immune to that. Okay, so I have some questions for you. I love it when you ask me questions. About matchmaking. So I wanted to know any early records of matchmaking? Like, were all our ancestors matched up?

SPEAKER_01

Not really. Like, there's one like main story where I like Isaac, Yitzguk, um, his dad Abraham sends his servant to go and fetch Yitzhak a partner. But I think that's the mo that's the earliest I can think. Unless you count like Adam and Eve. Yeah. Right, as a matchmaking, like literally, because it's like of the same. Or remember we spoke about one time that mid-rush of like Adam lining up with all of like the speed dating of the animal kingdom. But that's not matchmaking. Actual matchmaking would be would be Yitzhak and Rifka. I think that's like probably the one that I think of most. Okay. It's a really nice story, like the servant goes in and fetches this woman, happens to be related to them, but like it was a different time. Um, and brings her back, and then they have like this really beautiful loving relationship. Like, yeah, more so than our other ancestors, I would say.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Yeah. So I'm ashamed to admit that the only real representation of matchmaking that I'm aware of was the you know, yen yente or yent not yentel, yente. Yeah. In Fiddler on the Roof.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and the famous song matchmaker, matchmaker.

SPEAKER_01

Which is what most people I would know. And then I love that. Like make me a match, find me a find, catch me a catch is good songwriting to me. I love it. Find me a find, fantastic. Yeah. Catch me what? A catch.

SPEAKER_02

And then like matchmaking wasn't really on my mind so much, or wasn't really part of popular culture, at least the popular culture that I consumed, until Netflix brought out Jewish matchmaking, which followed Indian matchmaking, which was also interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Which also like, I feel like there was this a time in the late 2010s where there was a bunch of ultra-orthodox centered Netflix stuff. Like they also had unorthodox, yeah. Which technically also like the earlier parts of that story are also about matchmaking, her relationship with her husband, who she didn't really know so well.

How Shidduch Systems Work Today

SPEAKER_02

And also how she was not such a catch because she was from a family that was just a yeah, had a mother. Yeah. All right. So how prevalent is matchmaking today, I guess, in secular and religious circles? Do you think that's a good idea? In religious circles, again, we talk about religiosity as like a spectrum.

SPEAKER_01

In modern Orthodox circles, I think it's much more laid back. I have a friend, my friend has a son, you know, I have someone in mind for you. It's like that laid back thing. But the more orthodox you get, and you don't have to go that very far, there are entire like systems and structures in place that are really like huge business models. Like it's actually crazy. Really? And it's so structured. But it's also But like before I tell you the structures, it's also like expect it's the expected way to do things. It's more weird to not meet your match through a shit or through a matchmaker than it is to yeah, like that's just it's the done thing. It's an it's you in the secular world, what you you graduate high school, you go to university, you find a partner online at uni, whatever it is. In the frumar worlds, it's literally graduate high school, go to seminary for a year, sign up for matchmaking systems, find the husband. Like that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

It's just everyday life. All of my cousins, I think, except for maybe one, met through the matchmaking system. All of them. Wow. It's just what it is.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um So what are these systems? Is it true that there's like a ring binder with your child? It it comes from the parents, the other parents.

SPEAKER_01

So usually the parents are the people who help facilitate it. Okay. Right? Like you get put on into the marketplace and then like your parents barter on your behalf essentially. Because also that's but like they're the ones paying for the services as well. Um you have a resume, you have a dating resume, and the resume has your name. Your contact information. It has your parents' names, your mother's maiden name, maybe. It has all of your siblings' names. If your siblings are married, it has their partners' names. It has the schools you went to, it has your siblings' occupations. It has your occupations. It has your hashkath or your religious preferences and like how you practice Judaism. Um, it's got Does it have height, weight, eye colour? It will. It usually has like a recent photo of you. Full body or just headshot? That's a good question. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It has a photo, like a recent photo, it has that information, and then it also has things like your hobbies. But like all of the hobbies and that stuff is like sort of the last page of it, and it's like a shorter set, it's what you're looking for. And like the personal stuff is kind of secondary or the second page to who are your parents, who are your grandparents, who are your siblings, like what we call it ychis, your family ychis. And you're that's like kind of your family stature. Oh, um, if you have good ychis, it means you come from like a good, well-regarded family. Um, so yeah, so so the front page is like all of that ychis information. What schools did you go to? What rabbis were you educated by? And then you also have reference, like a real resume, you have references. And so I'm a reference on like a couple of people's shirk profiles. And so every so often I'll get a call, like, what do you know about this person? And like describe them. And they always ask like weird questions. Like I had one recently that the question was something like, Does she like to grow? And I was like, What? He's like, you know, like religiously, intellectually. I was like, Does she like to yeah, she likes to learn? Like, what a weird does she like to grow? She likes self-improvement. Like, does she like to constantly be learning new things? Does she like to be bettering herself? And I'm like, and again, it's kind of like that first page. Who doesn't like those things? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

It's a bit general.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Have you ever been asked to be a reference and said no? Because you don't think anyone should have to put up with that person's bullshit? No, I'm not a reference for many people. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um also because like I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't think they want a Jewish public lesbian to be like if you're in that system, yeah, I'm bad for your ychas.

SPEAKER_02

Uh well, as you were talking about that in the family, it dawned on me that I'm I'm not good. Like, if there's someone else in my family who wanted to use a matchmaker, then I'm You're the bad yichas.

SPEAKER_01

I am. Yeah. But people people like um they're matchmakers as kind of their full-time job. Because if you do a successful match, you get hefty sum.

SPEAKER_02

Do you only get the money if or is it like a bonus? You get a bonus if it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's a good question. I think maybe it's I think it's if you're doing it like no, I think it's if you if you make the match, you get paid.

SPEAKER_02

Like surely you'd have a base salary for doing the admin and the research, but then if it's a good one, then you get I don't know, because it's kind of also like you're doing it on such a rolling basis.

SPEAKER_01

But also people have like like conventions almost. Like, you know, like I'm gonna people go to other countries to matchmake on behalf of their kids. Yeah. I know people who do shidok world tours, like it's very common. If you haven't found someone in Sydney, get on a plane, go to New York, then you go to London, you go to South Africa, go to Israel, and it's like you travel to all of like those Anglo spaces, and it's like everyone's like, Oh yeah, nice traveling. No, no, you're finding a shiddoch, like you're on a tour. Wow, you go, you get set up. It's also why in some communities, like you finish high school, you move to New York. Yeah. That's it. Shiddoch town.

SPEAKER_02

Or this kind of happens, it's it's not really shiddoch, it's not really matchmaking, but I know also in the secular community, especially among queer secular Jews in Sydney, that this pool is quite small. So if you haven't found your Beshet and you want to be with a Jewish person, you end up going to Israel.

Hotel Lobby Dates And Growing Into Love

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Anyway, so your parents set you up, you go on a couple dates. Yeah. Um, usually it's in a like a hotel lobby as like the Shadoch Date Central. Really? Because you're not going out for dinner with this person because you're religious, you want to be in like sort of a public space. Oh, okay. So that you're not like alone, because that's also not really allowed. Okay. But also you don't want to be in a space where like you don't want to go to the local kosher restaurant because everyone's gonna know you there. And it's like it's a bit hush-hush. You don't want unless you're engaged, you don't really want to know it's a private thing. Yeah. You don't want everyone to know your business. Yeah. So you go to like a hotel lobby, maybe in a different city. This is also like in Israel, like you'll go to like like there's a bunch in Jerusalem that are just like if you go on a Saturday night or like a Thursday night, it's like Shiddoch Central. And then if you like them, you see them again a few times. Sometimes they you date for longer, a few weeks, maybe, handful of dates. Um, sometimes you date for less time. One of my cousins dated someone for two weeks. And then got married or engaged. Got engaged and then got married six weeks after that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um they still together. They have three kids. That wasn't my question.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah, they're still together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happily married?

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, but again, like the Kharedi. I'm only talking about it because there's no way they listen to this podcast. Um, yeah. Happily married. But again, like I think the thing with the Shiddoch system that people don't understand, or maybe with like more orthodox marriage in general, there are different like I think the the standards for getting married are different. Not in like not in a bad way, just in like their expectations for a relationship are different. Yeah. You get married to a partner who you will bring children in the world with, who align intellectually with your worldview and who you grow to love. Okay. Like that's the difference, right? I find someone who I'm aligned with, who I like spending time with, and that spending time is a handful of dates. I remember a lot of these people often haven't spoken to members of the opposite sex who aren't related to them. I'm talking about like the really orthodox. Yeah. Like the really, really orthodox. They don't talk to boys, you know, at shore or whatever it is. And so you find someone who you really like, you have kids with them, and and then the love kind of grows from there. You have this shared partnership and you're focused on the kids, and you're focused on like raising them in a the house that you want to raise them in. Whereas like in the more modern world, you love someone and the marriage is like an expression of that love together. Like it's a completely different expectation of what that marriage is, how like the function of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I also, this is just my own personal opinion that I feel like in the more modern or secular world, your partner is expected to be your friend and your confidant and your psychologist and your um financial advisor or whatever. Whereas like in the more religious circles, you have your other people, like your community.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think look, they you should still like your spouse, even in the Haredi world, but it's different, I think. And it's like it is the person you're spending all your time with. But I I really do think the the biggest difference is that like dating and marriage, like you get married because you love someone in the more modern world. Yeah. You marry someone because you know you can love them in the more Haredi, because you want a family with a good person. Uh-huh. Like that's the difference.

Better Setups And A Call For Clicks

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Something that I think the secular matchmakers, and I mean the amateur matchmakers, like just your aunt, for instance, not yours specifically, but the aunt in the family who wants to set you up with someone. I think what they could learn from religious matchmakers is to actually get information about the other person and to see that you the person you want to match might actually be aligned and not just boy, girl. Boy, girl. Single, single. Yeah. Like that shits me. But that doesn't happen to straight people.

SPEAKER_01

That happens also to gay people. 100%. Yeah. I had a f I had friends in Jerusalem who were like, we're gonna start doing like queer shidochem. And literally they were like, girl, girl, together. I am not interested in this person at all. We have nothing in common. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02

Jewish queer. Yeah. Marry each other. Um, and I should give credit to the person who we spoke about at the start of this episode, because even though she posted on behalf of someone's mum who's desperate to get their son married off, which to me says the son still lives at home and the mum is desperate for them to leave.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think so. You don't? Sometimes it's like my son is alone in an apartment with his kitten. Oh, okay. He needs a girl. Right. I want grandkids who aren't cats. That's the vibe.

SPEAKER_02

Red flag. Um, but I think at least what I will give this person is that she has at least made an effort to list some of their interests.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, do you know how many posts I've seen in groups like this that are like, my son is 34 looking for a woman? Do you have any Jewish? Yeah. And that's because again, for the mum, all they want is a Jewish girl who's not older than 34. Like, that's it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Lol. Anyway, that's all we have time for today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Pretty sure? Pretty sure. It's I'm expecting to do it, like, it's weird to like flip it on the hair. I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Did I miss anything? No.

SPEAKER_01

Can I say something though?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you've raised your hand, which is cute. Is it a rant? No. Is it?

SPEAKER_01

I just think that I think friends should be setting friends up more in the circular world. I don't think it's happening enough. I think people are like, like I said, I'm too nervous to do it. I think we all like have to like kind of get over it. If you have friends who you think we'll like have something in common, like go for it. I just think that like every dating opportunity in Sydney is like older singles, 28 to 34, speed dating at a synagogue. And then, oh my god. And then I saw okay, I saw photos of like a Friday night singles drinks mixer in a photo of 30 people, two women. Really? All men. And it was not a game mixer, it was for straight people. Wow. Yeah. I think that's the other thing is like I don't know how to mince my words. I think men tend to go to these events more often. Maybe because they're a bit more desperate to find, you know?

SPEAKER_02

In my day, it was different. There were more women. I just think maybe there was something in demographic split. Something in the water that there were more girls.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, there's a shitoch crisis. There's not enough. There's too many girls. There's always been a shit, like.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Oh, so you think but the m the men are going to the singles events.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's like the tables are turned, like women are like have sort of given up on these events because like they don't have a very good time. Right. And the men are still like, maybe there's a girl there.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Dunno.

SPEAKER_01

Don't know. Friends, set up your friends. Yeah, set up your friends. That's it for today's show. You have been watching slash listening to, ashamed to admit, with me, Shoshana Gotly Becker, and this Tammy Sossman.

SPEAKER_02

And this. I think I prefer Nemesis. And this, whatever you are, Tammy Sossman. This episode was brought to you by the Jewish Independent with Aliway Productions. The vocalist in our theme song is Sarah Ya L. More credits in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01

If you like our episode, even if you look, how about this? If you disagree with what we think about the Shitdock system, leave us a comment, post about it, you know, comment on a real. I think we might get pushback on this one. You reckon? I think any time that we as two people who don't look religious comment on the state of the religious world, people like, fuck you, lesbian bitches. Yeah, but that's what happened with like, I don't know if you've seen recently, you can cut all this out. Um, our kush thing. Yes. People hate it. Yeah. Right? Who are these people? They're people who like, it comes up on their, they don't follow us. They don't care, like it's Jewish, so it comes up on their algorithm. Yes. So they're gonna look at us as people who are on the outside of their community because they don't think we belong. Yes. They're gonna get angry at us talking about the how dare you! I love my husband who I dated for 10 minutes before we got engaged. That's what we're gonna get. That's I know it. So if you feel like that, at least just like turn it into clicks for us. Yes. Send it to your friends.

SPEAKER_02

Or listen to the whole episode where you get the full context of us actually admiring. That's true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much. See you next week.