Ashamed to Admit
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Ashamed to Admit is the podcast for anyone who's ever nodded along in a conversation about Jewish history, culture, or current events while internally panicking.
Hosted by comedians Tami Sussman and Shoshana Gottlieb, each episode breaks down the big, chewy, occasionally ridiculous questions of Jewish life, identity and community, with warmth, wit, and zero judgment.
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Ashamed to Admit
Being Jewish and Polyamorous - What does Judaism say about Ethical Non Monogamy?
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What does Judaism say about polyamory/polygamy/ethical non monogamy / being monogamish / opening other people’s mail? Does your local synagogue have a swingers club?
We’re spilling tea on this week’s ep of ATA. Plus a mother in a jewish facebook group is auditioning farm animals for her baby’s third birthday party.
You can watch this episode on YouTube
This episode was filmed and edited by Alleyway Productions
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The vocalist in the theme song is Sara Yael @iamsarayael
Theme Song And Host Catch Up
SPEAKER_00A shame to ask, ashamed to admit, got dewy, dewy questions. This is it, this is it. Why is wicked simple are unsure how to ask? We'll open up the books, the ark will open up your cynical heart. No such a thing as a dumb question. Okay, that's mostly true. Tammy and Shoshana are here for you. Ashamed to admit.
SPEAKER_02Ashamed to ask. It's everything you didn't get in Jewish studies class. Hi. You're listening to Asham to admit. I always forget how good our theme song is. And like I like because I listen to every episode just to, you know, I like I'll I'll check if I should post anything to socials about it, which like the funny parts. Yeah. And then I'll message you being like, cut me this. Yes. And then I'm always like, Ashana la. Juicy, juicy question. It's great. It's good so much. It's lambs.
SPEAKER_01Do you want to let our listeners know who you are?
SPEAKER_02What? Oh yeah. Um well I'm gonna let oh my god, chill. Yeah, I'm saying they're listening to Ashamed to Admit, and they've just heard our amazing theme song. Mm-hmm. Presented by the Jewish Independent, also known as The Jinn Dependent. I'm Shoshana Gottlieb Becker, and I have one wife.
SPEAKER_01I'm Tamisaman, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I have no wives. And as of recently, zero husbands.
SPEAKER_02Is that something we applaud?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02I'll raise an ASMR toast. One second. Let me do that little.
SPEAKER_01Have you heard of JSMR? It's like doing that, but like with matzah or with Jewish products. Yeah. Jewish SMR. Jasmer.
Ethical Non Monogamy Defined Simply
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Shoshana. Do any of your Jewish friends or relatives practice ENM meaning ethical non-monogamy?
SPEAKER_02I can say without a shadow of a doubt, none of my cousins do. None of my relatives. How come? They would be shocked and horrified to hear the words ethical, non, and monogamy being said in a row. What about your friends? I don't know. Maybe. The ones that, like, as far as I know, no. But I could be wrong. I don't know what happens behind closed doors, man. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I know of a few Jewish people who practice ethical non-monogamy or at some point have practiced. In fact, in September of 2023, I pitched an article to the Jewish Independent. It got taken on. Um, I interviewed a few subjects, and both these subjects, or two of the subjects, live outside of a Jewish community, but they are Jewish, and they expressed that it was easier to practice ethical non-monogamy when you're not, I guess, living in the stedl, because there is Is it like a Jewish practice for them, or they're just like believers of ethical non-monogamy? No, it's got it, it's not something that they do because it's a Jewish practice.
SPEAKER_02Um Do you wanna I'm gonna pause you right there. Yeah. We define a lot of Jewish things on this show just in case. Do you wanna, just in case our listeners don't know, do you want to define what ethical non-monogamy is?
SPEAKER_01Probably that's really smart.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna take some notes while you're I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_01I'm kidding, I know what it is. Alright. So ethical non-monogamy, otherwise known as polyamory or monogamous, is basically when you are um having sex outside of your relationship, or maybe you're having a relationship outside your core mala relationship, or maybe it's non-hierarchical, meaning that you have two or more partners, but it's not done in a secretive way.
SPEAKER_02I mean, like everyone knows that there are synagogues where people are swinging. Does that count as ethical non-monogamy?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah. So yeah, I know people too. Do you? You're gonna tell me the names of the synagogues?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So basically, it's about either stupping or seeing or having relationships with more than one person, but everyone knows what's going on. There's nothing secretive or deceptive about it.
SPEAKER_02Did the gym dependent po like publish your own?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so they so what they did was they said, yes, this is a great idea. Go ahead and write the article. It was September 2023, and then October 7 happened, and then the commissioning editor said, Look, I think we're just gonna have to pause this story because it's not a priority, right? You release it in conjunction with this episode. That's a really good question. Well, I just thought, well, maybe we could do an episode on this instead. Sure. So it got me thinking. What does Judaism say about ethical non monogamy?
Shame And Community Reactions At Shabbat
SPEAKER_01Because when I was interviewing my subjects, the overall feeling was that there was a sense of shame, not from them, not from the people practicing, but for other people in their lives. For instance, both of these people that I interviewed had mothers or in-laws, and they wanted to bring not their primary partner to Shabbat, they wanted to bring their other partner to Shabbat, and their family had a problem with it. They only wanted the first, even though in one of those relationships it was non-hierarchical. However, in one of the relationships, his wife was Jewish, his girlfriend was not. And so the mother had an issue, basically. Uh we don't know if it was well, it was partly to do with the whole ethical nominal part, but also the part where she wasn't Jewish. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02Fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There are a lot to unpack. So much to unpack. But the whole premise, and this is what I had planned to include in the article, was that it's so funny how we're all like contemporary Jews are so funny about it, so such like it's taboo. When weren't our forefathers and foremothers doing it? Yeah, but like that's a really long time ago. Okay.
SPEAKER_02I would start nowadays and I would answer that direct question being like, so much of the Jewish of Jewish life is built around the concept of the nuclear family that anything that upsets that is going to send shockwaves. Alright. Like I think that's part of the intense religious reaction. Is not remember your friend who was like, you know, this guy I'm dating who's not religious and who's having sex outside of marriage. No, who is religious. Sorry. No, no, but that's the thing. He's he's he's he's not religious enough that he's he's fine having sex outside marriage, but like his homophobia isn't a religious reaction. It's more of this, like, again, the nuclear family is so central to Jewish identity and Jewish practice and community life. So I think that's partly it, right? They see it as a threat to that. Yeah, or it's just so different to what we're used to. But yes, to answer your question, our ancestors did practice I I don't know if you could call it ethical non-monogamy, because if women don't really have rights, the same if women aren't considered, you know, like equal to men in the old days, I can't I don't know if you can call relationships ethical.
SPEAKER_01So you're saying only the men were allowed to have relationships. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Women, women couldn't have because you can't have the question of who a child's father is. If a woman has multiple husbands, right? You don't know who a kid's dad is, but like you always know who the mum is. Right. Um also the examples of of so I'm gonna move away from using, you know, like non-monogamy. I'll just call it it's the polygamy. It's polygamy, right? It's multiple spouses. It's pretty much almost always for reproductive reasons. So the first one of the first examples we have um is Avraham, right? Abraham um that of our direct ancestor. There's other people who have multiple wives, a guy named Lemmach,
Biblical Polygamy And Why It Goes Wrong
SPEAKER_02it's a whole thing. Classic Lemak. Um, but our direct ancestor would be Avraham Abraham has two wives. But the way that it comes about is his wife Sarah can't have kids. She's old, nothing's coming out. She says, and this might sound familiar if you are a fan of Margaret Atwood, right? She says, I can't have a child. Take my handmaid, marry her, or she make her your concubine, and she'll be like a surrogate. The child that she has will be as though I've had a child, right? Mm-hmm. Um, doesn't work out. Because Hagar, who is the handmaid, is forced into this situation. Again, maybe why you can't call it ethical, she doesn't have a say in whether that's happening or not. But she f she has ownership over this child and it causes broigus because um she feels superior to Sara because she can fall pregnant and have a baby. Sara's really pissy and starts, you know, and she gets really triggered by the way that Hagar is pushing her button, so she pushes back. Hagar runs away, Hagar comes back because like an angel appears to her. It's a whole thing, you know. Um but it doesn't end well. It it eventually ends like once Sara has her own child, who is Yitzhak or Isaac. Um, she sees that Hagar's son, Yishmael, who's at least 13 years older than Yitzhak, is like a bad influence, and so she kind of forces Avraham to send away Hagar and Yeshmael um to live somewhere else. Okay. So it doesn't end great. There's really it's lots of big personalities. It also doesn't work like our arguably the one with the most wives of our one of the ones about like the most famous, I would say, is Yaqov. Jacob has four wives. Yeah. It's the same situation, kind of, right? He accidentally marries two ladies, he gets tricked into marrying the first one, Leia. Then he marries Rachel because he loves her. Rachel can't have kids, so she gives her handmaid Bilha to him. Bilha has kids. Then Leia stops having kids, so she's like, that's a good idea. So she gives her handmaid, Zilpa. So, like, his two of his wives are considered concubines rather than I think fully fledged wives. Right. Um, and there's there's legal differences in those ways between a wife and a concubine.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Um and that ends badly because there's so much jealousy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Rachel and Leia are at each other's throats. Like, there's weird instances where we think, like, if depending how you read the text, one of Leia's sons sleeps with one of the handmaids, like Bill Harozilpa. Like the kids have their own hierarchy between them, right? The like they're jealous of Joseph. Well, they're jealous of Joseph, but then also the rabbis say that the sons of Leia see themselves as like the rightful heirs, and that the sons of the handmaids are lesser than, so they don't play with them. You know what I mean? So there's it's bad family vibes. Yeah. All of the stories, pretty much, that we have of polyamory seem to warn against it in some kind of way. Um, other examples, Hana and Elkanah and Panina. Never heard of them. So Hana, I think I mentioned once before she like invented sort of how we pray today. Yes. Yeah. So her story is that her and her husband do pilgrimage to the tabernacle every year. She never has kids, she's always really sad about it. Um, Panina. So this guy in Elkanah has two wives. One is Hana, who is childless. Hana is his favorite wife. That's what the text says. Panina has lots of kids, right? I think it's it it does, it does make for like really good writing because like each each wife has what the other one wants, right? Which Panina has a bunch of kids, but then Hana has love from her husband, which Panina lacks. And so then Panina like pokes and prods Hana and makes fun of her for not having kids. Hana runs into the tabernacle and like prays, but she prays silently, which wasn't a done thing, and she gets accused of being drunk. Oh, that's why you talked about it, because you talked about drinking. She gets accused of being drunk, then the the head priest is like, don't do that, that's inappropriate. She says, I'm not drunk, I'm just praying for a child. He blesses her that she'll have a child. She has a child.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then she has to like take that child to live and serve in the Beitha Mikdash for the rest of his life. So she kind of like never like would see him on a yearly, maybe. Oh no.
SPEAKER_01Sad. What's the Beitha Mikdash?
SPEAKER_02Not the Betha Mikdash, sorry, the Tabernacle.
SPEAKER_01The Tabernacle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what's the Beitha Mikdash? The temple. But that comes later. That comes later. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Do you want other examples?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Hit me with some more examples.
SPEAKER_02Solomon allegedly had 700 wives. Too many. Too many. Imagine having to remember those anniversaries. Am I right? Imagine all those birthdays. I think it's it's it's I think it's I don't know if he actually had 700 wives or it's trying to like describe opulence. But also the Torah says that kings shouldn't have so many wives because they might be swayed by their opinion, which feels problematic. Slightly gendered. Women can sway you. Um, but it was also the rabbis say it was political marriage, right? You know, you're marrying like to connect dynasties and create sort of those political um connections.
SPEAKER_01700 could also just have been his body count.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Or maybe just spun differently.
SPEAKER_02I think, but I also then don't know if it's like 400 regular wives, 300 concubines. Uh-huh. Because concubines have less rights than a wife. Yeah, so there's status. Concubines don't aren't given a kutsuba or like a they don't have like dowry.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02So they're not given the same. I don't exactly know how it works, but they're basically they're not considered an actual wife. They don't have the same sort of protected legal status. So what's in that for them?
SPEAKER_01Sex and kids. I don't know. Sex and kids.
SPEAKER_02No, I also think that it's probably like people who are like of like like women of lesser status. Okay, so it's an accommodation. So like Hugar, yeah, exactly. Hugar, who is a handmaid, is a concubine. She doesn't like she gets fed and housed, and so do her kids. It's a fine life when you have no other economic prospects because it's ancient times. Sure. Apparently, one of his wives was the Queen of Sheba. Did you remember that? No. Political marriage, I'm pretty sure of. Don't fact check me. Please. Um yeah. Yeah, King Solomon. Slutty King Solomon, as the the good book calls him.
SPEAKER_01Who's the one in the hallelujah song about David? Okay.
SPEAKER_02That's a crazy story. Yeah. Do you know that story? No. So David and Butcheva, he ties you. Oh no, wait, which which part? The Saw You Bathing on the Roof or the Ties You To the Kitchen Chair?
SPEAKER_01No, I think that's Samson and Delilah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it's two different songs. But the Saw You Bathing on the Roof one is David and Butcheva.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Because he has multiple wives, King David, right? Because he's a king. I couldn't give you numbers. At least three. Okay. At least three, I think more. Because he did the wrong thing of he married, as far as I can tell, or can remember, sorry, like two sisters. Right. And then he had this third wife, Butcheva, and I think he might have had others. Anyway, long story short, on the roof, having a bath, as you do, sees a hottie, right? Like she sees, like he sees her bathing on the roof. Okay. And he's like, oh, I like her. Like, again, don't don't remember the specifics. It's been a long time since I've read it. But essentially, she's already married, but he sleeps with her. Because he's the king, do what he wants. He like sends he like her husband's in battle, so he like brings her husband and like tries to get him to write a get, like a like bill of divorce, but he won't do it for some reason. I'm probably getting so much of the story wrong. Anyway, he sends um her wife to like the like her husband to the front lines to be killed so that he can um get with her and marry her. These guys.
SPEAKER_01I think that's classic dictator behavior.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I messed up that story so hard, but like it's really cooked. Like he like he sends her husband to the front lines so that he can have dibs on the widow.
SPEAKER_01That is definitely not ethical.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01I think we can. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Like, so
From Kings To Talmud And One Wife Norms
SPEAKER_02much of it is like, yeah. Anyway, by the time you get to the Talmud, like they kind of sort of dissuade you from having lots of wives. Ah. Yeah. I think part of it is a financial thing.
SPEAKER_01Like you have to be able to take care of lots of families. Are you saying there was a cost of living crisis during the time the Times was written?
SPEAKER_02I just like my personal thing with like ethical non-monogamy. How do you have time for it? Like, you know what I mean? With what how many hours do you have in the day that you can like spend quality time with all of these different people?
SPEAKER_01I think it's a lot easier. Yeah, before you have kids, but people make time. It's amazing. You could ask the same thing of people who were having affairs where 100% don't care. How do you have the time for that?
SPEAKER_02I'm also like in the 40s. What do you mean you have a secret other family three towns over?
SPEAKER_01Like, how do you have time for that? You mean the 1940s? Yeah. That stuff's still happening now.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01That stuff is still happening now.
SPEAKER_02Who?
SPEAKER_01I'm obviously not gonna say it here, but there are Tell me, who do you who do you know who has multiple families? It's unethical for you not to tell me. When did monogamy become the norm?
SPEAKER_02Um it's a good question. So again, so I think the Talmud was trying to dissuade people from non-monogamy for different reasons. And as far as I know, there's only like one rabbi in the Talmud who had multiple wives. So by that logic, it seems to be the norm. Like one wife seems to be the norm already. But in around the year a thousand, there's a man by the name of Rabain or Gershom, who's that's an exact translation of his name is our rabbi
Rabbi Gershom Bans Polygamy
SPEAKER_02Gershhom. Rabain or our rabbi. Um, he's like one of the first big diaspora rabbis. And he kind of brings in these proclamations of Jewish life living in diaspora. Um, and there's a few different things that he does, but one of them is he bans polygamy for a thousand years or so. Um yeah, he bans, I don't know if it's funny so he puts an end date on it. He just bans polygamy for a really long time. Um there's different reasons, people say different reasons why. One of the reasons they say is that he realizes that Jews are living in a majority Christian society, and if we are live like to be culturally similar to our neighbours and to not be sort of picked on by our neighbors, we should adhere to certain things.
SPEAKER_01So I had heard that it only kind of came about because of Christianity in a sense.
SPEAKER_02But I think there's so I so that's sort of the historical thing. But I've also heard stories about him that again, it's I don't know if it's historical fiction that was written about him or it's considered legends about him, but he had two wives, and one of his wives was like a convert who then sold him out to the town vizier or something and like fucked him over. So, like, for him, so he was like, second wife, and no one can have one, you know. And then because he banned it for like a finite amount of time, everyone's always like, guess I can have two wives now because like his gazera's over. However, it's just it's happened for so long, it's the norm, so it's not gonna happen anymore, you know. I will say the other things he banned, which I think are really funny. Yes. Oh, one of them's funny. So he banned polygamy. Um, he banned um like no like no fault divorce. He is like, you can't just give your wife a divorce for no reason. She has to like agree to the divorce, he says, which is feminism. Yeah, we love it. The other thing he puts a ban on is um opening other people's mail. I love how like Isn't that just so funny? Like, that's so funny. I think that's hilarious. No two wives, like be a mensch to your wife, yeah, and she's like, don't open my mail, you guys. Like, I think you can tell a lot about a person's personal issues by the types of edicts they give to the Jewish communities. Someone keeps opening my Amazon packages. God told me to tell you that we shouldn't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_01That is amazing.
SPEAKER_02I think it's so funny.
SPEAKER_01That is so good.
SPEAKER_02It's good, it's good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Love that guy, our Rabbi Gershon. Yeah, bring him back.
SPEAKER_02Our Rabbi Gershon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Love him.
SPEAKER_02That's funny. Um, yeah, so that's um that's that's that stuff. All right.
Cheating Dilemmas And What To Do
SPEAKER_02Also, can I just say? You can say, Oh, is this a rand? Not quite around. Okay. All these laws around having one wife, the nuclear family being the center of Judaism, yada yada yada, doesn't stop religious guys cheating on their wives. All these laws that you follow, all these clothes that you wear, and still you go out and you stop other people in a non-ethical way. Yeah. So just saying. I'm just gonna say it. I'm not gonna say anything else.
SPEAKER_01Question before we get to our favorite segment. Sure. If you knew that someone was cheating on their partner, oh, this is a good one. Do you how do you handle that? What do you do with that information?
SPEAKER_02It's really hard. Because you don't want Is it okay? Do you know that are you friends with the cheater or the person getting cheated on?
SPEAKER_01The person getting cheated on.
SPEAKER_02It's really hard because if you know that that inf they won't leave their partner with that information, do you tell them or not? I don't know. I I think it's case by case. Yeah. If you know, if you know that like this is make it or break it, like this is the thing, I would tell them. And that like that they were definitely gonna leave them, or like they would definitely act on that information you tell them. If they're not gonna act on it, if they're just gonna take that, if it's gonna fracture your relationship with that person, and then you know, five years down the line they they need friends because their partner's not so great, and they've isolated themselves because people have like gone out of on a limp to try and warn them. Maybe keeping quiet is the good thing.
SPEAKER_01So you wouldn't go to their partner and say, I know what you're up to, fucking stop.
SPEAKER_02Oh. Yeah, maybe. Like how much information I have. Okay. If it's like a if it's like I've heard it secondhand or not. No, no, you've seen it. Yeah, I'd go and tell them to stop. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or you never know, they could be in an ethical non-monogamous situation and they just haven't told you.
SPEAKER_02I know, I yeah. Would you want to know if your partner was cheating on you? Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Emphatically. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I reckon I'd want to know. And I reckon I would still remain friends with the person who told me. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you some stories off camera.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Oh. Oh. Alright.
Three Year Old Parties And Jewish Mums Groups
SPEAKER_02Is it time for um Stupps in the Sheddle?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Good one.
SPEAKER_02Because we don't shame stupping around here. No, we don't. So it's not shame in the it's Stupp in the Shuttle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But we may be shaming this person who comes from a Jewish community in a city, in a country, somewhere around the world. But this is a Jewish mums group, which is its own thing.
SPEAKER_02I love it. It's events and info. I don't even think I'm in events and info.
SPEAKER_01Ah. Yeah, sometimes the Jewish mums groups are like there's too much happening in the one group that's. I hate breakaway groups.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're Jewish. It's expected for there to be breakaways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_02What are the thing of the guy on the desert island? Say more. There's a Jew gets stranded on a desert island. Like 10 years later, he's saved. People who save him, they're like, oh, there's two buildings. What's what are these buildings you've built? He goes, So that's the shoal I go to, and that's the shoal I wouldn't set foot in.
SPEAKER_01That's a very good job.
SPEAKER_02It's like this. This is my Facebook group, and that's the one that I got kicked out of, and I'm embraced with them.
SPEAKER_01So I made my own one. Exactly. And we're about to find out why. This person in this Jewish mum's events and info group writes.
SPEAKER_02Brains Trust, capital B, capital T. Brains Trust. Do you have entertainment ideas for a three-year-old gorgeous boy's birthday party? Baby animals are not cutting it, nor are magicians. Any help would be enormously appreciated. I like it. Fuck the baby animals. They've done nothing for me. Also, I hate magicians. For a three- It's like I like to think that, like for his second birthday, they had baby animals and magicians. And they were disappointed. And the two-year-old was so unimpressed that she's like, God, I gotta up my game this year. I gotta up my game.
SPEAKER_01What kind of a future does this gorgeous baby boy love? Love that she had to say that the baby boy is gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02Gorgeous. My gorgeous baby boy.
SPEAKER_01My gorgeous baby boy. What kind like there's nothing to look forward to? This kid is gonna have depression.
SPEAKER_02You're not empty. Also, like baby animals are not cutting it. Makes me think she's like holding auditions for this birthday party. She's going, next. And then a bunch of baby animals walk in and like audition to be the entertainment, and she goes, no, next. I yeah. My question is, is this a regular Jewish three-year-old birthday party or is it like an upshurin?
SPEAKER_01What's an upshurin? Oh, when they cut hair.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like traditionally, you don't cut a little boy's hair for the first three years of his life, and then when he turns three, you cut his hair. So she also having a barber come to this party.
SPEAKER_01Well, you've probably been, I've never been to an upshurin. Upshurin. Never. Because they're not, that's not the circles.
SPEAKER_02I love it. I think it's so funny. We can do a whole episode on it, but for me, like the height of humor is taking a small child, sitting them on a chair. Because at an option, what happens is like the community comes and everyone gets to snip a little lock of the hair. So like putting a child, you put them on the soul, you give them like a lollipop to keep them calm. The baby's usually like sobbing hysterically. Everyone's taking chunks out of their hair. And then they take him and they like cut, like they get a proper haircut afterwards. But I think, like, wouldn't if you were three and you look a certain way and you look like a little girl because you've got these like long flowing locks, and then you look into the mirror and there's a little boy there instead, like, wouldn't you have like an identity crisis? Yeah. I think about it all the time. I think it's so funny that we give little boys identity crises over a haircut. Yeah. It's also like the best transformation. Like, if you love um movies where there's some kind of montage and the main character goes from looking one way to another, like before and after pictures of three-year-old Jewish boys, my faves. It's so funny to see. Because they go from like a little baby to a strapping young man.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I feel like if this was an Upshurine, upsurning. Upshurin, they would say so.
SPEAKER_02True.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, you've been to more than me, so they usually don't have that. Can I I cannot stress this more? Kids do not need a birthday party until they are old enough to ask for a birthday party. And when they ask for a birthday party, let's say they're around three or four, you take them to a park, you give them a scooter, you bring a birthday cake. Okay? That's it. That's all they want. That's all you need.
SPEAKER_02When I was like six, I had a jumping castle at my birthday party.
SPEAKER_01When you were six.
SPEAKER_02Jumping castle was really in my backyard, it was really cool.
SPEAKER_01Not when you were three.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I'm shaming this person. I don't have a dettle.
SPEAKER_02I'd I I'm not a mum, so I don't have as much anger and fury as you seem to be.
SPEAKER_01You don't?
SPEAKER_02I think it's funny. Again, I'm like imagining her like auditioning three-year-old party acts and a magician in a waiting room with a bunch of baby animals. And then maybe also, I don't know, like a hula hoop artist. You know, like like all of the different options for a three-year-old's birthday party in the in the eastern suburbs.
SPEAKER_01She's auditioning jumping castles.
SPEAKER_02I think it's so like the concept is just so funny to me.
Wrap Up Credits And Listener Ask
SPEAKER_01Family and friends.
SPEAKER_02Family and friends. My mum doesn't listen to this.
SPEAKER_01Does your mum listen to this? I think she stopped and she hasn't told me that she stopped, but I I suspect she stopped or she's having a little break because she didn't call me up and get angry at me after the Cushrood episode came out where I outed her for getting me baked and egg recording. Well, that's what you get.
SPEAKER_02If you don't listen to it, we can talk shit about you, so that's what you get.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for watching or listening, everyone.
SPEAKER_02Um that's it for today's show.
SPEAKER_01That's it for today's show. You've been watching or listening to Asham to Admit with Shoshana Gottlieb Becker and me, Tammy Sussman.
SPEAKER_02Uh, this episode was brought to you by The Jewish Independent or The Independent. With Alleyweight Productions, the vocalist in our theme song is Saria L, and there are more credits in the show notes.
SPEAKER_01If you enjoyed this episode, forward it to a friend. Give it a positive review if you haven't done so already.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Just like I loved this. Zoe, when you said loved this on that episode, I loved you. Do it again. Thanks, guys. See you next week. Bye.