Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Season two finale: "Just want to make you proud" with actor and comedian Josh Glanc
In their last episode for season two, Dash and Tami chat with actor and comedian Josh Glanc about … so many things, including: leaving law behind to pursue a career in entertainment, the unbreakable intergenerational umbilical cord, flipped stereotypes in Australian Jewish schools, wanting to make everyone proud and an anti-Jewish heckler.
Relevant articles:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/are-year-10-students-too-young-to-visit-auschwitz
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/an-earnest-attempt-at-communal-healing
If you liked this episode you’ll probably like:
‘Paranoid and Petty’ with John Safran: https://ashamedtoadmit.buzzsprout.com/2345229/episodes/15965511-episode-21-paranoid-and-petty-with-john-safran
‘Ashamed of Nothing’ with David Baddiel:
Email your feedback and voice memos here: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
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Are you interested in Jewish issues or you have Jewish issues, but you're a little bit ashamed that you're barely keeping up to date, that you just don't have enough prerequisite knowledge to hold your own at family dinners.
Speaker 2:If you answered yes, you've come to the right place.
Speaker 1:And if you answered no, this might not be the podcast for you, but hang around anyway. We might change your mind.
Speaker 2:I'm Dash Lawrence and in this podcast series, your third cousin, tammy Sussman, and I call on experts and each other to address all the ignorant questions that you might be too ashamed to ask.
Speaker 1:Join us as we have a go at cutting through some seriously chewy and dewy topics.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast. Ashamed to Admit. Hello everyone, I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent.
Speaker 1:And I'm your local sad clown, Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 2:You have big sad clown energy Tammy.
Speaker 1:I do, don't I you do? Do you know what the sad clown paradox is?
Speaker 2:No, not aware of what the paradox is. What is it?
Speaker 1:Okay. So research has explored potential links between comedians' childhood experience and their motivations to entertain. Some academic came up with the sad clown paradox, which is like a hypothesis that some comedians use humour as a coping mechanism for early life adversities. You know, things like emotional neglect or family dysfunction, which is strange because I think I had normal amounts of Jewish family meshugas, family dysfunction, but I had low levels of childhood adversity. I had zero emotional abuse or neglect. Probably in most Jewish families it's actually the inverse where, like, your emotional needs are attended to maybe a bit too much, but anyway, it's really weird because I don't think I can explain my experience of, you know, these intense creative processes, my high levels of anxiety and internalized shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, the sad clown is something that you just intuit in someone. I don't even think that you can hypothesize or theorize about it. I think you just know a sad clown when you see one.
Speaker 1:Dash, I'd love to put you in the spotlight now and ask you why do you think you became a historian, journalist, executive director? You studied journalism and history.
Speaker 2:Yep, I studied both of those disciplines. Yeah, look, having studied alongside other historians when I did my.
Speaker 2:PhD, I did notice there was a certain type, I think, people who are attracted to the study of history. It usually goes back to childhood, this sort of interest in wanting to understand the context and wanting to understand past events and drawing the links between that past and the contemporary world. That was certainly something that was with me from an early age, and so the relationship between history and journalism is actually quite a well-worn path. There's definitely a strong correlation between the two, and so, yeah, journalism for me, I guess, is another way of understanding the world around us.
Speaker 1:Do you think that also your career path could be explained as an attempt to help you understand your own place in the world? Does self-discovery, even if it's subconscious, play a role in that?
Speaker 2:do you think discovery even if it's subconscious, play a role in that? Do you think? I think it does. Yeah, it's hard to know why we're attracted to particular careers or particular vocations. There is often some subconscious urges or yearnings that we just can't know and can never really know.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I would like to follow my urge to delve more into your thought processes and your self-discovery. What have you discovered about yourself and the world over? Season two, because this is our last episode for season two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, it is. Look, I think the frame of the whole podcast around shame does from time to time provoke some questions around what am I ashamed about? Should I be ashamed about that? So yeah, it has provoked some self-inquiry.
Speaker 1:More detail needed, please some self-inquiry.
Speaker 2:More detail needed, please? Well, listeners will just have to stay tuned and listen to our special summer shame series, where we dive into some of our personal shames. We'll tell you more about that next week.
Speaker 1:Who are your favourite people to interview?
Speaker 2:Who are my favourite people to interview over the course of this season?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm eating a corn shit while I asked you that question.
Speaker 2:Look, I'm really pleased that we managed to find a pretty eclectic group of folks in the Jewish community here in Australia who are doing all kinds of things, in some instances inside of their community. I'm thinking of Marnie Pearlstein, who has elected to be an Israel advocate and is really at the coalface of Israel advocacy online at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I loved her episode I found that conversation, and particularly understanding her motivations, really fascinating. I also took quite a lot away from our conversation recently with Nomi Kautman and with Shia Shriehi, pointing us in the direction of aspects of Jewish identity in Shia's instance and with Nomi, the way that Judaism responds to something like reproduction. I found that also really enlightening. Probably my favourite conversation this year for which I was really just an accessory to I can't take any credit for that it was with David Baddiel, who is just such a thoughtful, witty, kind person, generous, yeah, generous. I didn't expect him to be as kind of generous as he was. I knew him to be a very thoughtful person and that certainly was the case.
Speaker 1:And we do have some new listeners. If you haven't listened to our episode with David Baddiel, just go back a few episodes.
Speaker 2:So what have you learned about yourself, tammy, over the course of season two?
Speaker 1:I've learned that I hate self-promotion, having to constantly remind people that we're here to follow the show, to remind their people to listen, to, like, but it is a necessary evil. So thank you to all our followers who have been sharing the content with their networks Over the past season. I've really come to terms with the fact that I can't make everyone happy all the time. So when I started this podcast with you, I thought it'll be great because the Jewish Independent you know they have a lot of journalistic integrity. They're one of the few media platforms who are willing to give balanced perspectives and I'm someone myself who identifies as quite centered.
Speaker 1:I have friends who are more to the left. I have friends and friends' fathers who are quite right, and I thought, well, I'm in a very safe position here. I'm just going to be a, would you say, conduit of these different perspectives. But I didn't realize that that would also annoy people, that people would want me to take a stand and advocate for whatever agenda they have. So I guess I'm learning that you can't make everyone happy. Even with all that, I still do want to be a really good student. I want to make the community proud, I want to make you proud Dash and I don't know where that stems from. I know it's a little bit uncool or it's still shameful to want to try hard and impress people, but it's a really common experience. And even our guest for today admitted that he still wants to make his family proud and he still wants to be a good student.
Speaker 2:And that guest for the season two finale is Josh Glantz, a corporate lawyer turned award-winning actor, comedian and all-round entertainer. Josh is known for his dynamic performances and has enjoyed sold-out runs at the Soho Theatre in London, at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival and the Edinburgh Fringe, where he was nominated for the prestigious Edinburgh Comedy Award. Josh's impressive comedic repertoire includes appearances on Australian television shows like Comedy Up Late, utopia and Skit Happens. Josh has also graced stages at iconic events such as Glastonbury, the O2 Arena and Just for Laughs, earning three Green Room Award nominations for his acclaimed show Vroom Vroom, which is now available to stream.
Speaker 1:He's so captivating and weird in all the best ways. Take a deep breath, get ready to laugh, maybe cry with Josh Glantz.
Speaker 3:I think it really hit last night. You know, there's like a few days where it's touch and go, where you're thinking maybe it's not going to, you know, and I thought I nabbed it. But last night I went out and I had a bit to drink, but I don't mean a bit as in. Like you know, when people drink a lot, they say, yeah, I had a bit to drink. I just met a friend at the pub.
Speaker 1:But it's hard being so charismatic. I assume that people use you as a social lubricant.
Speaker 3:I'm not very. My energy or my ability to be entertaining if I'm not on stage is very much influenced by who I'm with. You know what I mean. There would be some people that would find me very boring, I'm sure, Because in that moment I probably don't want to be around them.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's put some pressure on me then to have to bring my best self to this podcast, because if you're boring, it's actually a reflection on me, not on you. Thanks for that, josh. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Not at all. What do you mean? I'm feeling the pressure. I saw the list of who you had on previously David Baddiel, holy bazooka.
Speaker 1:I know, but we're keeping you for our season finale, for season two. How's that for pressure?
Speaker 3:I'll talk, I'll keep the conversation going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good.
Speaker 3:Are you ashamed to admit that you're actually not that interesting when you're not on stage? I think about like comedians generally. We don't like to tell people that we're comedians because you get into. The worst thing you want is we'll tell us a joke or that pressure to be funny. But, like you know, it comes up. If you're having a haircut or something. It usually comes up and I can just imagine, like you know, it comes up if you're having a haircut or something. It usually comes up and I can just imagine, like you know, it's the last thing I want to talk about. I'm sitting there getting a haircut with some guy and I've told him that I'm a comedian and I'm you know, I'm delivering absolutely nothing and he must think this guy has got to be the most boring person. This guy's funny.
Speaker 1:Do you have a fake response that you give to people, because if you don't, I've got one I can pass on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, pass one on please.
Speaker 1:So you don't have one.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't like lying. I normally say I work in live entertainment.
Speaker 1:I keep it vague, so they think you're a stripper.
Speaker 3:Good one. They think I'm a stripper. That's right.
Speaker 1:This is the hairiest stripper I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:I'm sure there's a market for it. I know there's a market for it.
Speaker 1:I'm only bringing up your hairiness because you bring it up. I don't mean to shame you.
Speaker 3:I feel okay about it. I used to feel uncomfortable about it but I went through puberty quite late. People look at me being quite hairy and they think, geez, that guy must have had hair on his chest as a 12-year-old. But I kind of matured quite late, which makes sense in many respects. What was the job that you would tell people?
Speaker 1:Okay, my year eight maths tutor said that she used to and she just couldn't be bothered giving her real job description, because being a maths tutor is like that's a source of.
Speaker 3:oh, I better not tell people this is going to really bring up some uncomfortable conversations she's a maths teacher.
Speaker 1:She said that she used to tell people she was a chicken plucker for Edgell.
Speaker 2:Much better. That's ridiculous. How many former chicken pluckers would you have at Mariah College?
Speaker 3:But that is going to elicit, like if someone tells me, I mean I'm going to be inundated with questions for them. It's all I'm going to be talking about. She's trying to deflect talking about her profession by naming one of the most niche like obscure careers that I've ever heard of. It's ridiculous. This person's got it completely wrong.
Speaker 1:Well, she had a few things completely wrong because I ended up dropping maths in year 10, but this conversation is not about me, josh, it's about you.
Speaker 2:So, josh, welcome to the Ashamed to Admit studio.
Speaker 3:Thanks both for having me. I'm very excited to be on and excited to talk with you.
Speaker 1:I'm ashamed to admit, josh Glantz, that I struggle to define your brand of comedy. It's not straight up stand up. It's a blend of sketch, clowning, original songs and improv. I describe it as Saturday Night Live meets Eurovision, with a sprinkle of Australiana and a lot of body hair. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I struggle to describe it as well and I hate saying that because it kind of sounds a bit like a bit self-indulgent to say I struggle to describe what I do. I really, really don't like doing that because I'm not doing it to-.
Speaker 3:Be enigmatic really don't like doing that, because I'm not doing it to be enigmatic. Yeah, I think that's a good kind of description. I think since you've seen me, my styles become a little bit, maybe less body hair. I'm not naked on stage, yeah. I mean I'm doing lots of songs, there's lots of audience interaction and it's kind of a surprise I use a lot of surprise and things kind of go in different directions. You're kind of on this kind of surreal ride, I suppose, and you're not quite sure what's about to happen. I typed into chat GPT how to describe my show.
Speaker 1:I said how do you?
Speaker 3:describe a Josh Glenn show.
Speaker 2:We're aware that chat GPT has got a bit of an issue with anti-Semitism, so I feel like this may need a trigger warning. Well, we've discovered this with David Baddiel. For those who haven't heard that episode, go back to it and go to the end of that interview, because we unlocked the anti-Semitic code deep within ChatsheeBT.
Speaker 3:But obviously that hasn't touched your comedy yet Really, hold on, I'm just bringing it up now. Josh Glantz is a big fat Jew. Oh, maybe it has. Josh Glantz's comedy is so Jew-y. Run for the hills Red flag. Attending a Josh Glantz comedy show is like diving headfirst into a whirlwind of absurdity, laughter and unexpected delights. Glantz crafts performances that are anything but conventional with his unique blend of surreal stand-up music and physical comedy.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Pretty decent description.
Speaker 1:And I actually did watch your recent special on YouTube Vroom. Vroom, it's free, it's on YouTube. Yeah, are you aware that there are like 24 ads in that special and that they're all gambling ads?
Speaker 3:No, I'm not aware of that, really.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe Do ads differ depending on who's watching it.
Speaker 3:I told them that I wanted to be ad pornography. I'm very pissed off now.
Speaker 1:The fact that they're trying to sell gambling ads to me is completely off.
Speaker 3:I've never watched it on YouTube. It's on the 800 pound guerrilla web guerrilla YouTube channel, which is who distributed the special for me. Okay, I didn't. I wasn't aware of the ad, but I think that's kind of how they make money in order to distribute the special. I wasn't aware. There were a lot of ads. You say.
Speaker 1:A lot about 24, all of them gambling. All of them gambling. Are you ashamed that the ads on your special are promoting gambling?
Speaker 3:I mean, maybe I should be ashamed that I don't actually.
Speaker 2:Comedians got to make some money somehow. Tammy Is that.
Speaker 1:Nothing to be ashamed of.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I'm not seeing any of that money. You get it, you know, at least, at least one into one cent out of every thousand that's made off those ads. Right, not even sure it's that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's. It's the distribution company that would be getting money and they would be recouping money that they spent on trying to put out my special and they had to spend a lot on lawyers going through that thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Having heard it, I can see why, josh, this is Tammy's favourite part of the interview and because it's our last episode for season two, it would be remiss of me not to go there and not to ask this question. I'm always interested in the backstory, the biography and our guests, but I think for you, the real sort of foundational question I want to know from your early life is comedy. What were you exposed to in your family? I understand your father was a very funny man. Was it just the comedy of your folks, or was it actually what you're watching on television? Was it stand-up comedy? Tell us about your early life and comedy.
Speaker 3:How do you know? My dad was a funny guy.
Speaker 1:You wrote a piece for the Scotsman.
Speaker 3:Josh, oh, the Scotsman article, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:And also, I'm not sure if you're aware, you're in the company of Dr Datul Lawrence, who's an executive director of the Jewish Independent, but he's also a historian, so he takes history and personal history very seriously. That's great, so he wants to know about comedy in your early life, but he also wants to know your biography and like what schools you went to and what awards you won, et cetera.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I was obsessed with performing as a kid, absolutely obsessed, you know. The kind of the cliche story of performers as being kids as three or four-year-olds that all they want to do is put on shows totally applied to me. You know, there's pictures of me as a three-year-old cutting out like a cardboard box to make a theater and on Friday night at Shabbat dinner, the family would be sitting there and I was the first born boy in the family and the extended family on my mom's side. So really, you know, all the adults were sitting there watching me as a three-year-old put on shows. So it's quite remarkable to think about that. It wasn't until I was about 30 that I reconnected with that part of myself, which is kind of crazy if we think about our purpose and you know kind of what we're going to do with ourselves. At such an early age it was so clear what I should be doing. But you know, along the way, as Jews, we become doctors and lawyers, don't we? So I was very much obsessed with performing. I don't know how much comedy. I was very much obsessed with performing. I don't know how much comedy.
Speaker 3:My dad was incredibly funny and he, you know, really lit up a room and he was known to be very funny amongst his friends and I think that that influenced me quite a lot. You know, I think his humour influenced me. Apparently, we're quite. You know, our mannerisms are quite similar, we talk in quite similar ways, but growing up I mean I used to as a kid we used to watch SNL. Me and my siblings used to watch SNL a lot. The cast that Will Ferrell and Molly Shannon was in, I think that was quite a heavy influence. I then also, in my teenage years years, became very into, as I think a lot of us did, and it's so, you know. I mean Gen Z hate this person now, and I think we were all obsessed with this person. Is Sacha Baron Cohen Right? You know, we were obsessed Also, like full frontal and fast forward.
Speaker 3:Yeah obsessed also like full frontal and fast forward, yeah, like, like that was water cooler equivalent shows for us as kids.
Speaker 2:We would watch it on the monday and I remember us at school the next day talking about all the sketches, talking about sean mckayla sketches for those listeners who were born after the late 1990s are two great Australian television shows of the early and mid-1990s which spawned a lot of Australia's best comedians and television comedy as well.
Speaker 3:It was a really great time for Australian comedy and for Sketch. Shows are so expensive for TV to make and no one's spending money on TV Everyone's. You know putting gambling ads on YouTube now. So if you're a gambling company, why would you go to TV when you don't know what effect it will have? But you know, with algorithms in place, you know exactly how many times Tammy Sussman is skipping on that gambling ad.
Speaker 1:Josh, you've left out a part of your bio.
Speaker 3:When I became a lawyer.
Speaker 1:Prior to that you were headhunted, I'm told, at a school camp by the ABC to be in their ads. Weren't you. Some television producers came and they picked you out of the bunch to make the symbol of the old ABC ads with your hand Dash. Do you remember that?
Speaker 3:I remember it very well. The story is that the school, you know, the producers were there looking at kids and all these kids were doing it and they couldn't do it. And then one producer looks in the corner and there's me on the floor finger painting, and they thought, gee, look at that sturdy hand. That's the kid. We found him.
Speaker 1:That's the kid, and did you do ads as a kid?
Speaker 3:I did do a bit of ads as a kid and I loved it and I really loved it. You know I wish if we're talking about being ashamed I loved it and I really loved it. You know I wish, if we're talking about being ashamed, I'm ashamed that I spend so much of my time fixated on, like the future or the past, and not the present. I wish I'd taken it a bit more seriously. It was never. Performing as a career was something that I never like seriously thought there's a world that I could seriously pursue. That Like, like it was never. It was never a reality where I was going to be a performer.
Speaker 3:I remember I was doing an ad and the director really liked me and he said we're actually shooting an ad next week and do you want to be in that ad? You know and and I'm just thinking now as an actor and as someone who's in entertainment how like the opportunities you jump at and like you know how you clamor to kind of get any opportunities. And I remember I was doing I was going to hubbo camp the next week and I was like, no, I'm gonna have a camp, I can't do it yeah, but the memories made at hub on in camp, surely are much more yeah, but the money's made on camera but it's just.
Speaker 3:It just shows. To me that was never as like. I never had an understanding that that was something that I could have made a career out of. Because it's so foreign as an Australian as a Jewish Australian I think as well you know to get niche about it. It's such a foreign thing as like post-Holocaust survivor Australian due to be pursuing entertainment.
Speaker 1:For me anyway, yeah, I agree with that. So what kind of student were you like? Did you go to Bialik College in Melbourne for high school?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was there my whole life. I was there from three-year-old kinder until year 12.
Speaker 1:Okay, so for our international listeners, bialik College in Melbourne is a modern Orthodox co-educational Jewish school in Melbourne.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it wasn't. When I was there, it wasn't very religious.
Speaker 2:Pluralist is how they would like to phrase it these days.
Speaker 3:Tammy, culturally, yeah, it wasn't orthodox, like we didn't pray in the morning. I think it's certainly more now. Religion has a bit more of a role to play now, but it was very laxed when I was there.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what kind of student were you?
Speaker 3:I loved school. I wanted to be a good student. I always wanted to be a good student and still today I want to be good. This feeling of wanting approval, of wanting to be celebrated by your teacher or by your peers or, you know, wanting to be thought of as good, do the right thing, is something that I really that really impacts my day-to-day living. I think I don't know whether that's like a. I think it could be a neuro-spicy type of thing. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:It could be. I definitely think it's a Jewish thing, like when I used to watch as a teenager the Hollywood teen movies where it was like the nerds were the academics. That never really hit for me, because at Jewish schools it was kind of my experience that it was cool to be smart and to do well it's really funny it was.
Speaker 3:It was. I think we're very lucky in that respect because, like I did lots of musical theater and and at school and that was like you know, it's like the cliche thing is that would be seen as like like a pursuit that you'd be teased at, but like it was very much a cool thing to do. Yeah, being academic was really thought as kind of cool and we had a lot of pressure to do that, you know. And I was certainly very insecure about my intelligence while I was at school because you know there's a lot of like without unpacking kind of the negative implications and positive implications of what it's like to be brought up in that environment there was certainly a culture of needing to be very smart. You had kids that were smart but still feeling very insecure about their level of intelligence.
Speaker 1:So true.
Speaker 2:Did that add another level of pressure for you to choose a kind of conventional career path, a career path that would be more in keeping with Amelia that was around you?
Speaker 3:100%. If I look back at my decision to study law and become a lawyer, I mean I did enjoy the study of it and I did enjoy the practice of it. There's a lot about the work that's really great, but certainly it was to make my family proud and to prove my intelligence to my family and to myself and to the community had a big role to play. It was wanting my grandparents to say with nachas, my grandson's studying law, and I didn't have the balls and the self-awareness and the maturity to admit that In fact, that three-year-old that was performing in front of his family on Friday nights was really who I should have been listening to.
Speaker 2:But you were also, as you said earlier, one of the firstborns, so that carries a whole other level of pressure and assumption. So it would have been a very big bulb move for, you know, one of the firstborn in the family of that generation, to step off and say I'm going to pursue a career in comedy.
Speaker 3:Completely. It was just never. It was. It's just such pie in the sky stuff. It was just never even like foreseeable. I think I've got memory of having like a thought about like what if I want to become an actor? I've got memory of having like a thought about like what if I want to become an actor? And I remember thinking and this is like I remember having this thought, maybe it's a 16 year old or 17 or something like that I remember thinking like but how am I going to have Friday night dinner at Nana and Zeta's house? Like if I go, if I go to America to do that, how would I do that? You know that's crazy stuff, you know what I mean? Or just shows you like that's funny, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:That umbilical cord is real.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that's. I mean, I would say that's like the one of the biggest things about about Jews is that, like, jewish parents have a very difficult time cutting that umbilical cord from their kids and Jewish kids have a very difficult time cutting that umbilical cord from their kids and Jewish kids have a very difficult time cutting that umbilical cord. And maybe you can make that comment about other like family-centric cultures. But yeah, I mean, I really can see that and experience that.
Speaker 1:So you did end up studying law. Is that right? Not medicine, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, to my grandfather's disappointment. I studied law Melbourne Uni, had a really good time Again, wasn't involved in any performing whatsoever. I was quite heavily involved in Hubbo at that time and that occupied a huge amount, huge amount of my time and I guess for people listening that's a like a jewish informal education youth movement that runs, yeah, informal jewish education for kids from primary to secondary school and we'll put on weekly informal education programs and also like annual camps and things like that, and I was very involved in the running of that. So I never got involved in acting at university.
Speaker 2:So what happened to you in your twenties? Then you were I got fucked up, man. Obviously I'm assuming you weren't having an amazing time doing law. It was satisfactory, but it wasn't exactly fulfilling your life's dreams and ambitions.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, this is kind of the. I was really good at law. Okay, I really enjoyed it. A few things happened happen. I'd go and see live theatre musicals and I'd literally be watching in pain. I'd be watching these performers on stage and I'd be crying. I'd be crying in pain because I longed to be up there. I felt like I belonged up there and it was painful. So I was experiencing that Maybe there's something about having proved the things that I was seeking to prove. Oh, I've done that. I've graduated uni, I've become a lawyer, I was a Supreme Court associate. I've done these things that are like, see, I've done it. Now I could do what I wanted to do. So I think there was a bit of that.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, my dad passed away around that time as well, and that had an influence, I think, on the way that I thought about life and not wasting life and going for it. And I think, fundamentally, I really didn't want to have a regret. I really didn't want to look back and think what if that thing that I love, that I was obsessed with? What if I gave it a go? All those things were kind of percolating.
Speaker 3:And then, on a practical level which is quite important. Some friends of mine were putting on a comedy show in the Melbourne Comedy Festival and I was involved in that and that was the first time that I was getting on stage in like 10 years, so that had happened. So I actually tasted the love of performing again and I was like you know, and it just felt right. It felt like that thing that had been missing, you know. So all those things happening at the same time really led me to make that quite dramatic decision to leave law and then start touring comedy shows. You know, there's a world in which I would have done it a little bit more gradual, but also, yeah, it was exciting to just jump in.
Speaker 1:I'm really glad that you brought up your grandparents surviving the Holocaust and the death of your father, because I usually ask funny people what traumatic things happened to you or your family, because I just assume that it's the trauma that's made you funny. Is that right?
Speaker 3:I mean I think it has. It's hard to unpack the generational trauma and the effect that it has on us. It's very difficult to to kind of follow how that trauma has impacted us. You're hammering a nail and by accident you hammer your thumb. It's so easy to see that trauma and then the effect that that will have on you that day and the next week. It's so difficult to understand what it meant for your grandparents to move to Australia as the sole survivors of their community, bringing up your parents in that context, your parents then bringing you up and the impact of all of that.
Speaker 3:It's funny because yeah, I'm not sure All I know. I know that I feel very connected to that story. You know, you feel like you can see your lineage, you can visualize how you are connected to that. I mean, I think a lot of jews feel this way, but I certainly a lot of children and grandchildren of holocaust survivors feel this way that when you see the images and when you you see footage and you see other holocaust survivors, you really feel like it's it's you. You feel like it's you know, there's an incredible kind of connection. You feel like it's your parent, it's, or it's you sitting there in some way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um it's very, very difficult to separate ourselves from their experience comes back to that umbilical cord that just hasn't been cut, generation after generation.
Speaker 3:Totally humor does play a very pivotal role in judaism and jewish characters. I mean I just think about, like, when I think about why I'm funny, I just I do just think Humour does play a very pivotal role in Judaism and Jewish characters. I mean, I just think about, like, when I think about why I'm funny, I do just think about my dad. I think I'm funny because he was funny, you know, and I just inherited that. I don't know what led him to be so funny.
Speaker 1:Was it a coping mechanism to deal with his parents' trauma?
Speaker 3:Possibly Like he was a really smart guy, but he was a very naughty student and got expelled from schools. He was the opposite to me in terms of wanting to be good, so humour was definitely some type of coping mechanism for him, I think.
Speaker 2:Did he share your absurdity, Josh?
Speaker 3:I think I'm a bit more weird. I probably get that from my mum Massive weirdo.
Speaker 2:In some ways I think there is a strong connection between carrying that history of the Holocaust and trauma and absurdity. I don't know, I'm sure there's probably some research that's been done by some obscure PhD out there looking at the correlation between Holocaust, survivor children and grandparents and absurd humour, because you know, in the face of just the most unspeakable chapters in human history, you've only got a handful of responses and in some way absurdity makes a lot of sense because it just defies any possible rationalization.
Speaker 3:When you're exposed to, you're not really thrown by much. I think Holocaust survivor grandchildren, you're not like, we're not prudish, we don't avoid difficulty. We're very much in tune with suffering, and I think that that's an important aspect of comedy.
Speaker 1:So while you're now living in London or living between London and the US, Like London and Australia, but doing quite a bit of traveling.
Speaker 3:Probably, when this comes out, I'll be doing some shows in New York and then a show in LA before coming to Australia.
Speaker 1:Okay, so while you've been touring doing your comedy shows, your younger sister became an accountant and has purchased a home and had a family. How does that sit with you?
Speaker 3:You know, this is probably my biggest source of shame. I think it's really hard, particularly because when you want, you know, I certainly want those things like family stability.
Speaker 1:Money.
Speaker 3:Money and it is hard when you know know you've just got to not compare yourself and just be content with the journey you're on. I struggle with that heavily. I really find it hard to not compare myself. So so leaving Australia for me was as much to do with it being better to pursue my career as a performer in the UK because of the industry here, but also very much about not constantly being in an environment where I was comparing myself to all those people I went to school with who have owned houses with kids my sister and you know needing to be away from that so I could pursue my journey. Yeah, it's definitely hard. It's definitely the biggest sacrifice I've made. So, you know, let's hope it pays off.
Speaker 1:But it's so interesting that you say that because you know I'm in Sydney, dash is in Melbourne. We have small children. I don't have a house. Dash is building his. Currently he's in the process of choosing his bidet. It's a huge decision in his life. Sometimes we talk about our lives like we're really often in the trenches, we're just kind of struggling to keep our heads above water, and then we'd look at you living this. What appears to be such an awesome lifestyle traveling, touring. It just goes to show it's such a cliche, like it's so hard just to appreciate what you have.
Speaker 3:Now, there's always a sacrifice and there's always a payoff right it's such a cliche to say the grass is always greener and you know. So. How do we, you know, how do we feel more content with what we're doing? Because I look at my sister and the relationship she has with her children and the immense joy and fulfillment she gets from that relationship with such longing, and she would look at the freedom and the lifestyle that I get to lead with such envy.
Speaker 3:But I find it very hard to not feel ashamed about the position I am you know, I mean, obviously as a result of my upbringing, like this is, like, probably not a good consequence of my upbringing, in that I feel ashamed with not having some of the the boxes ticked for where I am at my age in life and you can take a step back and say, yeah, but everything's going well.
Speaker 3:And you know the reason why that's the case is because you started a second career at 30. You know, there's just intellectual justifications for it, sure, but you know, know, emotionally it's very hard for me to not feel like a schmuck, to not feel like a bit of a piece of shit for not having things that I can point to, those objective things wife, kids, home, sustainable career thank you for that very honest answer but just going back to that moment that you described earlier, that moment of all those ongoing moments of of pain, of sitting there watching live theater or comedy and feeling that sense that that's actually where you belonged and that's where you wanted to be, that's, that's a pretty powerful message and that's where you wanted to be.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty powerful message. You kind of have to respond to that and go with that. And you have and you're living it. Yeah totally.
Speaker 3:You know, I still feel pain in the reverse in terms of like seeing, like walking into my friend's beautiful home and three kids running around and you know I mean he looks like he wants to kill himself, but there's still a sense of I want this, but it's not the same pain as watching a performance Like, you're right, they're not equivalent in that way, yeah, but there's still like an envy. You know, I've just got to be content with the journey I'm on and you're right, hold when it does get difficult, hold on to that feeling, because I still come back to would I change it?
Speaker 2:Like no, Was your dad still alive when you decided to make the call to move overseas and wonder what he would have made of all of this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he wasn't, and it's so interesting that he wasn't. So he only knew me, as you know, a guy who had finished law and was working in a law firm and about to start pursuing a career as a lawyer. I wonder, if he was alive, whether I would have made the transition. I don't know. I really don't know, but he was my biggest advocate as a performer. He would come and see me if I was in school musicals and he was there every night with a beaming smile on his face. So he was my biggest advocate to pursue performing in some ways.
Speaker 1:Earlier in our interview I mentioned your special on YouTube that I watched for free. My inner Schnora was excited about the fact that I got to see your special for free.
Speaker 3:And then, of course Except that you had to be exposed to the gambling ads 24, yeah, gambling ads, and I noticed that it was published in 2024.
Speaker 1:And as the show started, I thought to myself I wonder if Josh is going to have any Jewish content or out himself as a Jew in this current environment that we're in. And then, in the first five minutes, your Judaism is mentioned.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot about that.
Speaker 1:But I think it's the only time it's mentioned throughout the show but. I think it's the only time it's mentioned throughout the show. Have you made any conscious choices to minimise your Judaism or made an attempt to hide it in any way?
Speaker 3:My Jewish identity is certainly very important to me and of course it is because I went to a jewish school my entire life. I come from a holocaust survivor background. I was very much involved in hubbo as a 20 year old I I think it's impossible to not be impacted by that experience and and I feel incredibly Jewish and always have and look and sound incredibly Jewish, so it's really not easy for me at all to move away from it. Expressions of Judaism, I think, are so connected with community and I think it's connected with community and I think it's very difficult to experience your Jewishness without others around. And I think, because of the nature of the life that I live and the work that I do at this and I'm not saying this applies to everyone, but it's the way it applies to me I'm a very solitude character. I'm moving through the world and touring in a very siloed way and I think because of that I don't connect enough with it in the world. This isn't a very clear answer.
Speaker 2:No, it makes perfect sense. You're not having Shabbat every Friday night with your family and you're not around for hakim.
Speaker 1:No, but that wasn't my question. Your question was when you're around other people and other comedians, or making choices about whether you show your Judaism or you're open about it. Have you thought post-October 7? Or maybe I should cut that line out, because I don't want people to potentially not see my show because I'm Jewish and I haven't made any statements publicly about. You know Israel.
Speaker 3:Of course. Of course, because you know the world feels pretty topsy-turvy at the moment and I don't want to get involved, like, I really don't think social media is the place for us to be engaged, although it is the way with which our society engages, you know, with things, with issues. I've got some real stories to say. In my current show that I'm touring, I'm more explicitly well, no, no, maybe it's not explicit, but I do mention that I'm Jewish and certainly it felt that when I, when I started doing that joke before October 7, just before and certainly afterwards, it felt that when I started doing that joke before October 7, just before and certainly afterwards, it felt different and it's become increasingly different. It's a very silly joke for the sake of explaining, because I did this joke at a gig last week and something pretty significant happened in the room. The joke is my name is spelt G-L-A-N-C and a lot of people call me Glank and people that are at my shows, who have come seeing the advertising, have that in their head. So already the audience has a connection to that familiarity or there's a you know, there's a sense in the audience of of understanding what I'm talking about, because I say everyone calls me glank, and the audience is like, oh yeah, I thought his name was glank as well. So I basically say a lot of you know, did anyone here think my name was was was glank? And people say yeah, and I'm like yeah, obviously it's spelt g-l-a-n-c, so you'd ordinarily say Glank, and people say yeah, and I'm like yeah, obviously it's spelt G-L-A-N-C, so you'd ordinarily say Glank, but actually it's pronounced Glance.
Speaker 3:It's Glance, it's an Eastern European Jewish name. It's pronounced Glance and I found this out, that European Jews got their last names based on their occupations. And I asked my grandfather. I said you know who are the Glances? Did we cut glass or make blades or something? He's like no, josh, we're perverts. You know it's playing with the meaning of the word glance. It's a really simple joke. You know I don't need to explicitly say Jewish. I do like saying Jewish because I do like feeding the audience bits of personal information. I think in some ways it makes the joke funnier if I say Jewish, because you know I mean this is the most incredible thing about jokes, about comedy, about theatre, is the million connections and permutations that are attached to words and to movements and our experience of art. I make that comment on stage. Tammy, I say it's an Eastern European Jewish name, you know. For you, watching it like the Holocaust and history and immigration is all attached to that and to someone else.
Speaker 1:It isn't.
Speaker 3:So I think it's important to do that. On the weekend I did that joke and I said European Jews, we got our last names based on our occupations. Someone screamed out like the occupation in Gaza and I was really caught off guard. I was like what? It took me a while, I said, and then I was so upset. I was so upset. I was so upset that they ruined the joke. I never, ever, made that connection that me saying European Jews got our last names based on our occupations in the context of a profession that someone would then make that connection as being Israel occupying Gaza. It was really difficult to move on from that and the audience were behind me and they kind of started booing him because it just like it was just so unnecessary, it was so inappropriate in the context of me talking about my Jewish heritage. It just feels so heavy. He ended up leaving. I then, of course, felt guilty that he was leaving. I hated the fact that he'd leave. I hated the fact that it happened.
Speaker 1:Did someone ask him to leave, or?
Speaker 3:No, he said, okay, I'm going, I'm going. I think it occurred to him how wrong it was for him to make that comment. Yeah, Like I was headlining this gig. It was out in Worthing. You know, there's something different about when you're doing a gig in London. There's people that like see comedy. But when you're doing kind of more rural UK gig, like they're putting on a comedy night for the town, yeah, UK gig, they're putting on a comedy night for the town. Yeah, I was really upset about that. Then I told some friends and they were like you need to change the word occupation Now when I do the joke. I haven't done it since. But then we were talking about doing the joke without saying but European Jewss, we got our last names based on what our trade was or based on our trade. So we've got our last name based on our trade what about job?
Speaker 3:yeah, based on our job. We got our last name based on our job. But I don't know, job is weird because, like you know, but based on our profession is also a bit weird. I don't know. I was saying, you know, and it's just quite a strange situation where I don't want people to make that connection when I'm saying the joke yeah and at the same time, I'm a bit like why should I have to change the word that I've been saying?
Speaker 3:that's been working for the joke. It's just upsetting. It's just upsetting. I think. I see some of my friends on social media who are engaging with their Jewish advocacy and they're very actively posting things that support one narrative, and I don't. I'm not doing that. And then I see a lot of friends, Jewish or otherwise, who are posting, you know, incredibly progressive things that, again, I don't agree with and I'm not going to be doing that. I'm just left with a sense of like defeat. And I'm just left with a sense of like. It's just really upsetting. I'm just upset. I'm upset by it. I'm not galvanized into action, I'm. I'm really just left defeated. My Judaism's certainly probably become more important to me, or it's something that I'm very much aware. That is an importance I mean. Something really interesting and I'm sure you both relate to this is like the amount of Jews privately messaging each other about how we're feeling at the moment is something that was not happening before October 7th.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know it was not happening. I was not talking about being Jewish in this world to my Jewish friends, we weren't talking about that. And now that conversation is happening amongst Jewish people, which is interesting, there's a part of me that thinks it's all going to blow over. That would be nice, we will get back to normal, like sanity will prevail and maybe that's ignorant.
Speaker 3:I had a Palestinian friend who I did a split show with before October 7 happened and since October 7, he was posting things which I just found incredibly wrong and upsetting and we've just lost contact. But I'm not going to say to him hey man, that post was pretty upsetting, like he's going through a lot having family there. And you know, I'm not going to say like, hey man, you know, you know you said this happened in 1948 and actually it was 1949 that this happened and you know it was actually George. I'm not going to like, I'm not going to say that to my Palestinian friend who has family in that part of the world that is experienced that suffering. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to do that. I think what I'm trying to say is I'm not an extremist and I know that people are misinformed. I've engaged twice on social media with some of my friends that have posted things that I found problematic twice, and I've regretted both times.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Because, you know, unfortunately their response was defensive and I just immediately was like okay, cool man, you know, it's fine, everything's good, I'll see you later. Just you know, yeah, I totally yeah, I understand what you're saying and I just exited because I'm just like there's no point, what. We're going to have a conversation on social media. Like you know, I'm like there's no freaking point. So I feel defeatist, I don't feel I'm not going to be like well, I'm never talking to this person again. I understand the context. When someone says disparaging things about Zionism and Zionists, I'm not going to correct them and I'm not and I understand completely the context in which they're making those comments and I'm not going to defend, you know, and and and I feel guilty about that, like you know, I feel there's a part of me that feels like maybe I should, you know, maybe I do need to, because we have friends on social media that are battling these people and maybe they're changing their minds. So that's a very long-winded kind of answer.
Speaker 1:It truly was, because the question was have you considered not talking so openly about your Judaism on stage? And we got here. But I appreciate that we're all about the extra sauce on this show.
Speaker 3:I mean, I suppose until that point the real Jew-y listeners of the podcast are thinking you know when are you going to talk about anti-Semitism? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hasn't been a lot of talk about Israel to this point, so we got there. So, having spent a good I feel like it was a good half an hour or so this afternoon laughing my head off listening to Vroom Vroom in the car oh, you listened to the album I did on Spotify Cool, that's very cool, yeah, without gambling ads and loved it, and I thought I got to see this guy when he's next in Melbourne. So tell us you're coming here very soon. You're going to be here next month. What's the schedule? Where can people catch you?
Speaker 3:So my touring for 2025 is that I will be in Perth doing shows at Fringe World Festival and I'll be there from like the 17th to the 29th of January, I think, and then I'm going to be in Adelaide at the end of March and then I'm going to be in Melbourne for the Melbourne International Comedy Festival in April. So I would absolutely love people in those towns to come and see the shows. I would absolutely love that.
Speaker 1:Okay, we also have international listeners, so you will be performing your Family man 2025 show in Manchester on the 15th of Feb. Don't forget that, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm doing some UK tours in Leicester, edinburgh, bristol, glasgow, newcastle, birmingham, york, norwich and all the Reading Brighton. It's all on my website. All my live shows are on my website.
Speaker 1:And that's Josh Glance, not Josh Glank, but spelt the same joshglancecom. We'll leave a link to your website in the show notes.
Speaker 3:That'd be great.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thanks, josh. Thank you, thanks for having me. I've enjoyed chatting and I've particularly enjoyed avoiding the work that I need to do today, which is why I've been so happy to talk for so long.
Speaker 1:The work that I need to do today, which is why I've been so happy to talk for so long. Finally, I just wanted to say do try to take care of yourself. Try to stay indoors. Don't let anyone convince you to come out and have a drink with them. Take care of yourself, wubbala.
Speaker 3:Get rid of this cold. Thank you, and yeah, it was really nice to. I hope you enjoyed the chat. Was it a good episode? Is it going to be a good episode, do you reckon?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. That's it for Season 2 of A Shame to Admit, with me Tammy Sussman and Executive Director of TJI, Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2:This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with theme music by Donovan Jenks.
Speaker 1:If you like the podcast, leave a positive review, tell your group chats or encourage your third cousin's cousin to sponsor an episode or an entire season. Go all out.
Speaker 2:And if you're feeling a bit worried about how you're going to survive without us in your ears over the festive season, you don't have to worry because we've got you covered. We'll be dropping some special summer shames episodes every week during the rest of december and into january it's the least we could do for all of your support.
Speaker 1:So thanks for a great season two. Enjoy our mini shimmy-sodes over the summer break and we'll see you with season three in 2025.
Speaker 2:And to those who celebrate a Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah.
Speaker 1:And Happy New Year. Thank you.